Meet Jacob The Heel Grabber

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, today we're going to talk about a character and a story in the Bible that can go in actually a million different directions. I'm excited about it, but let's start with a little bit of background. Today we're going to be talking about Jacob or his Israeli name, Yaakov, which means heel grabber. And if you don't know who he is, this is the son of Isaac and Rebecca. This is the twin brother of Esau. And we're going to get into a story about him that you might have heard. There's a lot of weird stuff that kind of comes from it. It could be you maybe you heard of Jacob's ladder, maybe you heard of him wrestling with God. We're going to talk about all of it today. I'm really excited to kind of dive in. So uh real quick, how are you guys doing? And are you excited about today's show?

unknown 1:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Super stoked. Yeah, I think I think Jacob is such an Jacob's such an interesting character, man. Like he's got such a crazy arc. Like you started with he's the heel grabber. He was Esau's brother, and he, you know, he came after he did he was not the he did not have the birthright, so he stole the birthright essentially because Jacob, because Esau was hungry. So we'll get into it. But like he, you know, there's a lot of things that he does that are you know questionable, I think you could say, but he ultimately becomes, you know, a very you know fundamental part of the Bible, and the the kind the kind of part we're gonna talk about today is seemingly the place where that all changes. So really, really cool stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Yeah, he's really a good, interesting character. But as I continue to read like Genesis and going through his character arc and just kind of how God uses him, it's what is one of those stories you go, why why you choose this guy to like carry out Israel? Like after everything he's done and even continue to do after, but just God uses the the the unnamed, you could say, or people that are just like you would never think to use for greater for greater good. So this is one of those stories.

Why Jacob Feels So Relatable

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I mean, and ends up being one of the patriarchs, honestly. He is not just a character, he ends up being one of the patriarchs of Judaism, but you know, you actually just asked why would you use him? Yeah, and what I've seen, and I'm gonna run through a couple of verses really quick. I'm not gonna read the verses just where you can find them. The great thing about about Jacob is he's he's definitely me, he's probably you, he's everybody at some degree. And the reason I say that is way before he wrestled with God, um, if you look at the wrestling that he did, this is somebody who he wrestled Genesis 25, 22 to 23, he wrestled in the womb. Genesis 25, 29 to 34, he wrestled with his birthright with Esau. Genesis 27 wrestles with his blessing. Genesis 29 to 31 wrestles with Laban uh with his wife. Genesis 29, 30 wrestles in marriage, and then Genesis 31 to 32, who wrestles in fear when Esau comes back with 400 men. Yes, this is somebody who spent his life wrestling with man, not just with God. And I'm going, this is filled with who we are, wrestling through our lives, feeling like I don't understand it. I'm wrestling through it. I'm trying to go on my own accord and figuring it out on my own. And that's why I think this guy was chosen. He's the ultimate wrestler, you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Jason White.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

He's the ultimate, is he the ultimate warrior? Is that what you're trying to say? He's he's the WWF. He's the king. Look, he he is the king. And I and I think we we use the word wrestling, and so you know, jokingly, like we first see this physical person like jumping off a top rope and dropping an elbow on somebody. But you know, the it what we mean by wrestling is like the same thing that all of us do. Like we we struggle with belief and disbelief. We struggle with me, my will versus God's will. We struggle with what I should be doing versus what I am doing. We struggle with who I want to be versus who I am. Like we we struggle, man. Like we for, you know, when when we're young and you're a kid, you're trying to find out who you are. And it may not be you may not consider that struggling, but you are trying out a bunch of different stuff to see what fits you, to see who you are, to see where your lines are, to see where your boundaries are. And and sometimes in order to find your boundaries, you have to go over them, and then you have to fight with the consequences of that. So there's it's a it's a very relatable story. I think it I don't want to like capture the whole thing quickly, but if you if we are trying to do a like kind of a spoiler alert to where some of the stuff is going, it's like there's a lot of wrestling, but eventually when you it's it's the wrestling that makes you who you become. And it's the wrestling that helps you to understand God, and it's the wrestling that allows you to find your purpose. And so the wrestling is actually a benefit in in the long run, right? It's not what we want to do, it's not comfortable, it doesn't feel good, but it's great. It's great to do. So so why don't we start with? I mean, I don't know if you want to start with like some of those pieces you just you just mentioned. I mean, like Jacob was from the beginning, he wanted stuff, he he wanted the birthright, and Esau had it.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Well, he struggled with identity, which I think you were just uh alluding to as children also. We struggle with our identity. He struggles with that right away. And you know, uh we always say this, I always say this, that we know the end of the story of the Bible. So we can read it and go, hey, I understand the ending of it. Right. But while we are going through it, while you're struggling with your identity, it is very familiar to all of us. At some point or another, we struggled with that. I actually have a young adult who I just spoke to last night who is a boxer, he's a very talented boxer. And me being an ex-fighter, he he gravitated towards me and he wants to get closer to God. And he said, Listen, I how do I get closer to God? And every time you ask him, Well, who are you? He goes, Well, I'm I'm a boxer. Right. He goes, No, you're a child of God. Yeah. The first thing you have to do is find your identity before you can go go forward, get closer. And I think that the struggle that Jacob has is he's looking for his identity, and it he doesn't find it right away. He is struggling long term with who he is. He deceives to try to get blessings. He deceives to try to get, I mean, just you start to see something that the the story themselves is struggling with identity, and that lands very close to home with me and what I thought I was, and going through life thinking that I'm just gonna be this physical being, and that's it. I I didn't have the capacity to be somebody who can be scholarly or academic at all, somebody who could be on a podcast formulating two sentences that are coherent. I mean, that's what I struggled with, and uh man, I I just connect with Jacob right off the bat.

Deception That Never Satisfies

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Yeah, you mentioned we we've had an episode on identity, and we spoke a little bit about that. And I love your story, David, of how you did struggle with identity. Like you you were this fighter, and then after you know, trying to find yourself after after being injured and maybe walking away from from what you all you know all your life in a sense, right? So I think we all could see that in Jacob and struggling with that, but that's the beauty of God, right? He he gives you this name, he places it on your heart, and this is who you are, and he he lifts you up. And we see that throughout the Bible in most recently, you know, not most recently, but like in the New Testament that that we know, like Peter and and just Paul and their like their name change and who they became, you know, it's it's a beautiful thing that God continued to use throughout the Bible. These whole identity is a big thing. Um, and I think we see that now in modern day with people struggling with with identity and finding ourselves and purpose and who am I, you know. So I love that we're talking about this.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

And and they're finding it through deception, right? Even today, the people are finding it through deception. They're wow just just like just like our friend Jacob did, right? He he he knew he wasn't the thing that he wanted to be. He wasn't the firstborn, but he wanted to be. So instead of, and you can't become something you are not, so he deceived in order to get what he thought would be would be the blessing of that. And the thing is, the the interesting part about that is when we deceive ourselves to get what we see as a perceived end, do we get what we want? No, we don't, right? Like it's not what we believe it's gonna be. It doesn't fill the void, it doesn't, it doesn't complete us or satisfy or fulfill us. And that's what happened to Jacob too. Jacob stole the blessing, but he didn't.

unknown 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

You might you might just get it, right? You might just get it, but you might not be satisfied with it because I'm saying that's that's gotten it, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Exactly, exactly. Like, you know, yeah, you can get the thing that you want. I mean, he got the he got the birthright. He did. Right. Yep, but what did he lose in the process? He lost the respect of his of his brother. He lost the relationship with his brother, which is later, way way later, you know, fixed, but he lost the respect of his parents. He I mean to the point where look, even though he got it, he ended up fleeing. Like he ended up having to leave, didn't he? I mean, he went he had to go to Haram to to get away because he realized when I got the well, and that's and there's the that's beautiful. I'm glad that you said that because at the end of the day, he realized, oh man, I deceived myself. I didn't even get what I wanted out of this. I went through all these things, I lost these relationships, I broke all these things, and yet I'm still doing that. And then and then he's going on, and then here's the ironic part because like one of the next big things that happens in Jacob's life is that he he falls in love with is it Leah or Rachel? One of one of the two with Rachel. And right, and he goes to the father, and the father goes, Well, you work me for seven years and I'll give you her. And instead of giving her, he gives the sister that he didn't want. And and so he has to work another seven years. So now the person who deceived to get what he wants, now it just got deceived. And now he's starting on the character arc of seeing what it's like to be, you know, to be on the opposite side. Exactly, to be on the other side of that. Yeah. And and it gets complicated, right? And he's starting to see that. But anyway, David, you look like you have something to add there.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

I no, I you know, mine is completely off off topic, but with topic. Um, you know, you you talk about him, his identity and being deceived and all that. And one of the things that happens is he continuously struggles through his life on his own footing. And like you said, it doesn't end in satisfaction because he's not doing, he's not relying on God, having faith in God, he's having faith in himself and wrestling. And again, this is our all of our stories. And it just it while you said that, it it reminded me, we did an episode of like, hey, sacrifice sometimes is is for us. God is giving it to us because we need something to do in order to repent. Otherwise, we'd be, you know, live with guilt. I just thought about, you know, when Moses was told to take off his sandals and when Joshua was then also told to take off his sandals, you're on holy ground. It just hit me. I'm going, yes, it's about reverence. You're stepping on holy ground, so you have to take off your shoes. But then I thought about it like God cares about your heart, not your shoes. Yes. This is God's way also of saying, you need to anchor your stability on me, not on your sandal. Don't root yourself in your sandal with stability. You have to take that off. Feel the ground that I created. Yes, your stability is in me. And as you're saying that, it just hit me. I'm going, man, this is this is Jacob who is rooting himself in his sandals and not in God.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

And and yeah, like I said, it's completely off topic, but as you were talking, it just hit me. And in one of those moments I just had to.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

I don't think it I don't think it's off topic at all. I love that you're saying it because I think that that's that's what it is. He's rooting himself in self. He's not rooting himself in God. He was placed in the position he was, literally in the birth order position that he was, with the parents he was, in the situations he was. And he was given, he was given a clear path, and he chose other. He chose the other path. He chose the path of self. And the story that comes after that is a very clear example of what what conditions happen when you don't follow the path. There's there he he followed the path of self, and then he had the path of self to pay off at that point, anyway. So, so I mean it's just it's such an interesting journey for him. And you know, then then he continues to, you know, he continues to deal with these things through his life. And you know, I think the part that we're talking about, the wrestling, I mean, obviously, we're talking about that wrestling, but then the most significant wrestling of course, you know, at some point he's gonna go back to does does Esau call him back, or does he is he called back to Esau? He goes, I don't remember which, which and and but he's afraid. He's afraid of his brother. He's afraid of what is going to happen. Right, right. Oh, go ahead.

Fear, Gifts, And Being Alone

SPEAKER_03 12:37

I think I think did you skip or I think this is when it's leading up to the bigger, the the big wrestling, which is with God, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah, yeah. This is leading this is leading up to the big one. So yeah, yeah. So he's got to go back to Esau and and he's scared. He's he's honestly scared of what his brother's gonna do. Like he's gonna go there and his brother's gonna kill him. So there's this whole lead up where he's he he feels, and this goes kind of goes with what you said, David, about what you need to do and what you don't need to do. He feels that in order to soften his brother's heart before he gets there, that he has to have all these gifts that that soften him before he goes. So he brings all these you know offerings or you know, to to him. But interestingly, he's sending them to Esau, right? He doesn't trust that God is gonna protect him. So even though God is based, I think God has even said at this point, like, you're good, just go. But he's like, Okay, I'm good. I believe that. I believe I'm good. How about I just send a couple dozen donkey, you know, and a couple hundred goats, and you know, let me just send them in in pair and what's the word, in like little sections. So he sends people out with those little sections, one by one, to say, your servant Esau is coming or your servant Jacob's coming, your servant Jacob's coming. But before he gets to find out whether it works or not, this is when the big event happens. This this is it. So all of the gifts are gone, the servants are gone, the people are gone. I just realized another significant thing. Even his wives and his children are gone, and he is alone. So why don't we why don't we kick off?

Wrestling All Night Until Daybreak

SPEAKER_01 13:59

This is the the biggest workup ever, but we're 14 minutes in and no, no, this is great because honestly, you have to strip yourself before before coming to God. And this is what happened. He stripped himself of all those things, he's alone in silence, and he has an encounter first in a dream. People know it as Jacob's ladder, but he has this encounter, and even in the encounter, when he sees what's going on, he still doesn't have full belief or faith or trust in God, which is incredible because again, going back to us, there are times we have an interaction, a moment in our life we go, wow, is that a God thing? And then we still refuse to give him all the credit and and faith, and we're still trying to struggle on our own. And this is that moment where, by the way, Jacob's ladder just visually, everyone pictures a ladder. Uh again, the uh Sulaam is the Hebrew word for this, and it actually means stairway, and the vision that they have is of a ziggurat. So it kind of takes you back to the about Babel where you go, Well, why was Babel so wrong? Because they built a ziggurat to try to get to God. This is that moment where you actually start to see the Bible that already happened, uh, uh, you know, kind of a a playback to it and going, Hey, this ladder, which was steps leading up to God, uh, he has this really odd vision and this dream of of him seeing angels going up and down to God's court, and he's not really sure what to make of it, and he he starts to believe in God a little bit, but you know, and then and then the wrestling. And then here comes Andre the Giant to meet the ultimate warrior.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Yes, yeah, and he's got and I wonder if God has walkout music.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

I wonder if before he came to fight there it's like yeah, he does is lightning and thunder.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, it's it's actual lightning and actual thunder. I like it. Yeah, it's yeah, not ACDC, but yeah, so he struggles with it.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

I just he he wrestles with him, and it says up to daybreak, right? So like a long time. So he he held his own, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Like here's my favorite part of that whole story. You know, totally here's my favorite part of the story, though. It says that he he wrestled with him all night long until daybreak. I don't know a single human of a certain age who hasn't had the experience of that nighttime wrestling and fighting in your head, you know, and whether this is a whether this is a literal story, a metaphorical story, heartburn. If I I don't know anybody who hasn't had that experience of laying in bed and going, just fighting with it, you know. Is it me? Is it God? Is it what? Is it what what is this? What am I gonna do? How am I gonna do this? Who am I gonna do it with? Have I what have I done in my past? What did I do? Where am I where's my future? Like, you know, who hasn't gone through that and who doesn't understand, again, whether you're a literalist or a metaphoricalist, this is a story that should hit you deep in the fields because we know what this feels like. And to be fair, like you said, Javi, he made it through the night. He made it through the night, and and it even said that you know, God realized that he wasn't, or you know, the angel realized that he wasn't going to be beaten. So what he ends up doing is touching his hip, and you know, which made him incapable of of wrestling anymore. I think there's probably some significance in that as well. But I mean, let's just talk for a minute about what is it, what does it mean to wrestle through the night with an angel or even God himself? I mean, what what does that mean to you guys?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Well, I mean, listen, first of all, we know that God could have defeated him at any moment. And the point of what God does in our lives is not to defeat us, it's to teach us and to guide us. And I think that, yes, did he survive all night 100%? Would he have if the angel or God did not want him to? No, it would have been over in less than a millisecond. But I think that this also shows our life with God. The struggle is not quick. God is not looking to defeat us, he's looking to enlighten us. And when you start looking at the fight, the fight goes from Jacob, who is looking to win, to Jacob who wins by surrendering. And I think that once he surrenders, then then that's that moment. By the way, hip-wise, that's big. Just for me, who is an ex-fighter, it is significant because as a wrestler, your hip is where all of your power comes from. So he's taking away all of his worldly power as a wrestler. Um, so so he is, you know, he isn't able to not rely on himself, but he has to rely on on gripping onto God. And again, now he goes from I'm looking to beat you to I'm just clinging on, praying for you to give me a blessing. Yes. And that that's that surrender moment. And I I just think it really is significant for him touching the hip for that wrestling. I I just love I absolutely love this part. Yeah. Javi, what do you think of when you hear that?

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Uh touching of the hip? Um, I think though the whole wrestling and night, I mean, the first thing I thought about was actually you, Jason. I thought about is this an analogy? Is this a is this some kind of poetic writing? Is this you know, I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about like us as we first I thought, is the story an analogy or whatever happened to him, if that was just a dream, right? Does this actually happen or was it all in his head? Um, so that's the first thing I go to and thought about, and I I just want to be honest with that. Um but as I read it and I see it, if I could gleam off of and if I could get anything out of it, right, for myself, it's it's like what you guys said before, you know, like we struggle, we wrestle with God. I think whenever God puts something in a heart, a purpose, a line to where you gotta go, a target, and if it's something that's and usually is something maybe that you fear, that you're afraid of, you don't want to go through. And you think about that because you're thinking in your own power, you're thinking in your own understanding, you're thinking in your own will. And because of that, you fear it, you don't want to go towards it. So you wrestle with God, you wrestle with the the purpose that He has for you. But you know, God has a plan, and you know, it's hard to step forward in it and go, hey, I'm gonna step forward and go towards it. And I think we see that in Jacob. After he wrestles, he's limping across, you know, with a with a with you know, with a with an injury to his hip. But he steps forward. And I think that that meeting place was him going towards Esau, going back to the land that he was he was promised to be the father, the the four, you know, I don't want to say forefathers, but he's like the the father of yeah, the patriarch. Patriarch, yeah. Patriarch, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah. Let me just quickly before anybody else jumps in, yeah. I'm gonna answer for Jason, knowing him. Is it symbolic and is it is it literal? Yes and yes. It's not this or that, it's this and that.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Yeah, yeah, it's both. I mean, look, I I think the hip out is significant because you have to imagine the time period that they were when so much of your life depended on your ability to do things, right? You needed to be able to pick things up and I mean you'd still do, but like you had to be able to, you know, farm or you know, to be to be to what's the word I'm looking for? You have to be able to provide for yourself in a certain physical way that we don't necessarily need to now. I could eat for the rest of my life and call DoorDash and never have to kill an animal, you know, butcher an animal, do any of those things, right? They didn't have that ability then. They were semi-nomadic at times, you know, having to move from place to place. When your hip is out, you can't do that. So you know, when when you're when your physicality is taken away from you, you realize how much more you have to rely on others, more importantly, rely on God through others. And so I think that that the hip for me is a big deal to say that like when you take away anybody here had a bad back? Like, you don't realize how much you can't do in life and how much you are incapable of until you have a bad back and a spasm and you can't get out of bed. And you every time you sneeze or cough or move or laugh, like it feels like somebody's you know stabbing you in the back. And like imagine the same, I imagine the same thing's true if like put your hip out and you'd like mess up the tendon, and now everything you move is is something like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

And let me add another symbolic thing here, which is also literal. We're talking about his hip and his limping, and and Javi mentioned that he was limping. Yes, he limped. That is the If you look at the literal term, he had his hip dislocated, he limped for the rest of his life. But all of us, when we wrestle, truly wrestle with God, it leaves a mark on us. And this is his mark. This is he wrestled with God. He was left with a mark. And every one of us at a time where we've wrestled with him, it leaves some imprint, some mark on us that we have wrestled and survived and moved forward and trusted him more and relied on him more and had our grounding in him more. It also costs us something. And sometimes it's ourselves. It costs us me relying on myself and realizing that the God who created me is the guy who's truly in charge. And once I accept that, I do have to give up a part of me. It might be control, it might be shame, it might be guilt. Uh for you know, for Jacob, it was easy, it was it was a hip bone. Um, but you are giving up something and you are left with a mark.

Israel, The Mark, And Healthy Struggle

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Yeah. I mean, that's that's exactly right. It's I mean, it's funny how poignant these stories are when you actually say them out loud and start talking about them. I mean, you you feel it when you're reading it, but I I love these conversations because they remind me of all those things. They it it leaves a mark and it and you are forever changed. And when you when you just sit and consider for a minute what that means physically versus spiritually. And when your spiritual is take away, I mean sorry, when your physical is taken away to some extent, your your spiritual must grow. And so you and and it's not just your physical hip, it's all of the physical things that we hold on to. Like you said, it's the way that we self-identify with identity, it's the way that we try to control our situations through self, it's the way that you know it's all the things that we do through the through the body and not through the spirit. And there's just such a beautiful story of realizing that the there is an end to the physical capacity, yeah, and there's no end to the spiritual capacity. The other thing is I don't know if a lot of people know this, but when after he was done wrestling, you know, he got a new name. And his new name, for those who don't know, is Israel. His Jacob actually became Israel. He is the the the origination of the name, which is why and then he had 12 sons, and those 12 sons became the 12 tribes of Israel. Yeah. So it I don't know. I don't know why I thought that was such an interesting thing a couple couple years ago when I was reading through, I guess, wait a second, like Israel was a is a nation, it's a country. No, it's it's the it's from the father, it's from the father whose name was Israel, the the father who had to fight through all he did, who had to surrender after all he did to give birth to this nation. Man, again, a little bit of mind-blowing struggles with God.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

And the fact that I'm sorry, sorry, Israel.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

In Hebrew, right? In Hebrew, it means he who struggles with God.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Struggle with God. Which I love because again, it's it's showing God's nature because God renamed him from the heel grabber to struggles with Israel. He is very proud to give him that name of struggling with me. And I'm going, how great is that that God is saying, I'm actually gonna name you that you struggle with me as a good thing, as your change in identity is this wonderful. Yeah, if you're gonna struggle, if you're gonna doubt, bring it to me. Let's wrestle, let's let's work it out. And I love the fact that he uses that name even as um uh, you know, uh a trophy. This is my trope. My trophy is that my name is that I wrestled with God. And the survival of it is the surrender. And I just what an incredible story. The reason why I look at him and go, he's the perfect patriarch for Israel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I I haven't, well, he is the perfect patriarch of Israel. He is Israel, but you know, uh be beyond that, I think it's how do I express this one? Like I I used to say this a lot on the podcast, and I haven't said it in a long time, but I feel it's appropriate right now, which is to say that wrestling with God is healthy. It's when you ignore God, walk away from God, and no longer wrestle with God that it becomes very unhealthy. Like when when when you're sinning and struggling over it, or when you're, you know, you know you should be better, but you're not but you and you're taking steps, but you're failing at that, that's still better than just not caring. Not, you know, I there is no God, there is no purpose, there is no, you know, there, there is no meaning, there's none of these things. That's the dangerous place. So, you know, God Himself in the story also tells you, like, you're not meant to be perfect. Look at Jacob. You're not meant to be perfect moving forward. Jacob's gonna make mistakes in the future as well. But as long as you're wrestling with me, as long as you and I are fighting it out in the middle of the night, you're good in the morning. Like, I'll win. I'll win. And I and I should, but you know, if you were to look, if you were to win, then you deserve to win, but you're not gonna win. Like, that's just the that's just the nature of it. You're just not gonna win because you can't be bigger or better or stronger or more knowledgeable or more perspective, you know, have more perspective than God.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

I love that. I I'm I'm so glad that I was left with a mark on my life. Might not be a hip, but I was left with a mark from the wrestle and I'm on the marks.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Brutal. Oh, that's funny. That's so good. So, I mean, look, let's why don't we finish Jacob's story real quick just so we're not leaving people on a cliffhanger if you haven't read it. I mean, Jacob, Jacob ends up, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

No, I wanted to just quickly say and just kind of as before finishing, I mean, just to kind of circle it back to the identity, right? That's it's so significant. I think we we know that as Christians, you know, 2 Corinthians 5 17 says, Therefore, if anyone's in Christ, the new creation has come, the old has gone, the new is here. And I think when God gives us a new name, you know, it means something. We see that throughout the Bible, through you know, the name changes of all these characters, you know. And I think it's significant, Abram, even his forefather, even his grandfather Abram, right? To Abraham. And you know, that's a significant thing that we have to, I think when people read the Bible, just kind of pay attention to. There's something there of why that happens and what God is really trying to communicate there. And I think we, as a new creation in Christ, we also have been given a new identity, maybe piggybacking off of some of the episodes that we just talked about, about coming to Christ and accepting Christ, right? You are new and lean on that and just know you can live off of that identity, kind of what David said earlier, that you're not a boxer, but you are a child of God, and you can rest on that identity moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah. And and and to continue piggybacking off the other episodes, don't expect to be perfect. Don't expect to be perfect, but do keep wrestling, do keep fighting, and and and eventually you will get your you will get your blessing. We you know, we didn't say that. We didn't say that at the end of the night. That's actually what God gave him. God gave him a blessing. Yeah. Well, to be fair, our friend Jacob, he was quite the bold guy, and he said, I'm not gonna stop fighting you until you give me a blessing. So well, you know, but he's gonna be able to. Look, that's what the fight, that's what the fight's about, though. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

Well, in Genesis 32, 9 says, the reason why he went back, it was because God's saying, Hey, I will give you the country, I will give you, I want you to go back to the country and to relatives so you would prosper. And he goes, Oh, I'm in. I'm gonna go back. I mean, I was scared about it because now I gotta face Esau and my relatives that I've deceived, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

But you know, but but at the end of the butt, yeah, I mean, it's what an interesting thing, right? Like God tells him to go back and he goes, Yeah, yeah, I got you. And then he goes, but let me send a bunch of gifts before I get there, right? And then as he sends the gift, God comes to him and goes, You didn't need to do that. And they fight a bit, and then Jacob goes, Well, I'm not gonna stop fighting until you give my blessing. And he's like, All right, here. And he knocks him on the hip and is like, here's your blessing. Go, go have 12 tribes and you're good. But like, I I just like it wasn't even that Jacob like fought a little bit, like Jacob fought hard. Yeah, Jacob fought real hard. And I think that's significant for us too, right? Like, this doesn't mean you should have a couple nights of bad sleep and you should wake up tomorrow blessed and have the next, you know, the next tribes of Israel. Like, he really went through it. Like, he had to go deep, he had to go and he had to fight hard, and he had a lot of stuff to get through. I I just love that. But Jacob then becomes the father of Joseph, he becomes the father of the of the 12 tribes. We all know the Joseph story, you know, and we haven't we have an episode of the book. We did an episode on that, yeah. Yeah, but and and Jacob is I don't know, Jake Jacob, like you said, becomes the patriarch, and it's all because of this story that you would not seem to think was the way to get to how to become the patriarch of an entire entire nation, entire religion.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

I mean, he's a struggling father. I mean, he got 12 kids. I don't know how you do that. I mean, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Yeah, you have to feed 12 kids. So, guys, I this is one of my favorite, this is one of my favorite topics. I think Jacob is such a super cool character, and he's probably one of the most, if not the most, relatable character in the Bible. I just hope that I hope that we can all wrestle. I hope that we can all wrestle. I hope that we can all push through. I hope that we can all stare God right in the face and say, I'm not leaving this fight until I get the blessing. And if you're out there struggling, fighting, or you know, currently in a battle with God, keep fighting. And eventually he will bless you too. I just hope he keeps your hip intact. So thanks guys, as always, and we will talk to you soon. Bye. Later, guys.