SPEAKER_00 0:24

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, welcome back. Definitely interested to talk about this topic this week because last week was Easter, and there are people who, you know, walked up to the front and accepted Jesus for the first time, and they left and they go, okay, now what? Jesus, you know, a lot of people look at that as the finish line. And really accepting Jesus as a starting line, it's not the finishing line. So kind of let's let's talk about what that looks like. Well, what happens next? I've now accepted Jesus. What do I do next?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Yeah. I mean, you know, I think we've all had that experience, right? Like the uh the the feeling convicted during the service, maybe even walking up to the front and saying, This is the time I surrender my life or resurrender my life, or maybe the first time I surrender my life. And then a couple days later, we're back to our old habits and things are going the same. And you're like, Where's that God that was so present inside me a couple days ago?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah, it's like, you know, I had this feeling, I have this emotion, I have this thing going through me. I was crying in front of people. Yeah. In front of people. What's going on? Yeah, you know, what's happening? Yeah. You know, so I think I I'm glad that we're all talking about this. It's it's a simple conversation, it's a simple conversation, or well, it could be calmly diluted, but it's a simple uh topic to the first steps of going, going, you know, rededicating yourself or just kind of following Christianity or Christ.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah, but I mean, first look, I mean, guys, anybody who did that, congratulations to you. It really is an incredible step in your life. And, you know, I talked quickly last week about you know how it how it changed my life and how it also took some time. But I think one of the reasons that Javi wanted to, I mean, Javi was the kind of the person who really pushed this conversation was because, you know, I think we've all been there. I think we've all been in this place where where everything feels big and it feels like a moment to change, to repent and change who I am and what I do and who I spend my time with and how I live my life. And yet, you know, by Tuesday morning, you're like, but what, but what do I actually do?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Like, you know, they come to 10 years later, where or 10 years later, I'm going to church and I'm still having seen maybe much fruit of it. And I think this is what it is too. I think is that is just showing like are you at least maybe trying the foundations of what it is to follow, you know, and that's what it was. That's where it came from.

Faith As A Daily Choice

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah, so Hobby, what's what's your what's your first go-to for, you know, I walked up, I felt it big, I'm ready to go, but now I have no pastors and no church surrounding me. I gotta do this on my own. What do I do? Yeah.

The Table Analogy For Faith

SPEAKER_01 2:50

What's your first take? I think it I think it's exactly that. It's like exactly what you just did there. And and and really raising your hand or stepping forward is you have faith that you believe that this God loves you, cares for you, and wants you to do, wants, you know, did away from your sins. And it's really to have faith, to really live it out and have faith, trusting that you do have a big God that made this world, you know, that that that that also loves you and is right next to you, that gave his son up for your for for you, for your life, kind of thing. And I know that's hard to take in a lot of times, but to truly have faith. You know, I struggle with it at times myself, you know. Really, you know, I've been at it maybe following Christ for 12 years now, is to every day I have to wake up as a daily thing I gotta do. Christ talks about it here in He talks about taking up your cross, right? Take on your cross daily, and that's what it comes from. Luke 9, 23 to 26. He said, take up their cross daily. Yeah, you know, whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. I think that's to have faith in Christ, but also to actually, like you said a lot of times, Jason, I think you're true about this is to live it out, to truly live it out. You know, so that's where it comes from, I think, for me. Starting.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

I'll tell you that before we get too far into it, I do want to explain um faith. The word faith, I think, sometimes gets thrown around a little bit, like the word love. You know, I say it all the time. I love God, I love my wife, I love pizza, right? Very different, I love them very differently.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

What's the what's the difference?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

I can't get pizza. I've had pizza, don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

I know I'm not going there.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I almost became very non-Christian right there with my response. But what happens is with faith, and and a lot of you might not be able to see this right now, but I'm I'm leaning on a table and I'm 280 pounds, and my faith is based on my past saying this table has held me up before. I don't know who built it, I don't know how it was built, but my faith is not just blind. It's I've leaned on this table before. So I am uh in my brain, I feel like it's gonna hold my weight up. And it's the same thing with God, going, hey, I I I have this faith in God. I have faith that he's going to hold me up because he has before. And that's that rededication. If you're brand new, it's hey, I'm gonna have faith in this God that he's gonna hold me up because of something that I felt, something that I learned, something that happened to me. It could be in church, it could be outside of church. I have the faith that he's gonna hold me up. And that's I just want to make sure people understand blind faith is not what what you're being asked for. It's faith based on something. And for me, my faith is based on what God has already done in my life. So I just want to kind of touch on that real quick.

Why Faith And Belief Differ

SPEAKER_02 5:33

And can I can I throw in there as well? I mean, look, that's a hundred percent, a thousand percent accurate. But you're also saying, you know, it's what God's done before to a new believer, maybe he hasn't yet. And so there's, you know, how do you get to that faith of he's done it before? Well, you have to act in your life as if this is true for a certain period of time. That's what faith is too. Faith is faith is action. Faith is about an action. So if the Bible tells me I should do this, if the Bible says I should believe this, if the Bible says that I should try this, if the Bible says that I should, you know, behave in a certain way, and then I do that, and then I see the faithfulness of God beyond that. That's how I'm building that faith, which is different than belief. And in all candor, we had this conversation before we started recording today. And, you know, belief, belief and and faith are not necessarily the same thing. I think they're intertwined, but I think there's a lot of people out there that say, and I was one of them for a very, very, very long time, to the point where the word belief still triggers me quite a lot. But belief is comes from faith. When in the beginning, I have to act in faith, which means I don't necessarily know if this table, David, is going to hold my weight. I don't know. So I'm gonna lean on it a little cautiously. I'm gonna lean on it a little more cautiously. And the more that I see it it holds me, the more that I'm gonna put my weight on it. Until next week, I'm gonna be doing, you know, gymnastics on the top of this desk because I know I now have faith that it's going to, that it's going to hold me, right? But that faith was a combination of action and or you know, cause and effect, right? It was a it was action and reaction. But I didn't have it the first day. And my strength, but the strength of my faith wasn't as strong on day one as it will be on on you know year 10, assuming that I'm living out my life in that way, which is very different from belief, right? And then after that faith has shown itself to be strong, then maybe you can believe something. But I think it's really fair to say, and maybe, you know, it's transparent to say that there are people in this world who struggle tremendously with belief. And they struggle with it because in this physical life, we are surrounded by, let's say, people or things or communities or situations that let us down. And, you know, we did believe that, you know, ex-parent was going to do certain things and then they didn't, you know, or or we'd believe that our our church community was gonna do certain things and they didn't, and now we're church hurt, right? We there's there's hundreds of things in this life that we quote unquote believe in, particularly as children, and that come to not be true. And that could that can really put a damper on what belief means for you. And again, I'm just being really transparent. That was something that happened to me, and I'm you know, not airing any dirty laundry here, but you know, when when when that belief system gets struck down a bit, it holds. Yeah, you know, and it holds that way. So, so even you know, when I first got back into the faith, my belief was not strong, but I realized that I needed to have faith and I needed to act in faith, and that acting in faith has given me faith. And so I've continued to work through that, and it's it's just been a big, it's been a big difference for me between faith and and belief. So just want to throw that out there for anybody who needed that. How are you useful there?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I think Ephesians 2, you know, all the way one through almost eight is pretty much telling you the the the the path to it, right? One talks about you're you were dead in transgressions, you you were you know, sin, and through that following of of of Christ now you're pretty much renewed. He goes off to saying in in Ephesians two eight that for it is by grace you have been saved through faith, right? And this is not from yourself, but it's a gift of God, not by works, yeah, so that no one could boast. And I think that's that's what it is. That's that first step. And I love what you're saying, Jason, because you're right. There has to take for me to stand up and actually say yes to it, to the to to have faith, I took action. And it's a continual action of daily taking up your cross daily that that you live your life as a you know following Christ. It's not easy, but it is a step that he wants to make.

Identity Shift Over Behavior Fixes

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah, and I mean and and there there comes the next part of the step, right? I think you have to believe the first step is to believe that you need to take these steps forward, that you need to take, take steps in faith to do what Jesus has asked you to do, what God has asked you to do. But on top of that, you know, the first thing that we're gonna do as humans is we are going to try to change our behavior. And when we try to change our behaviors, we're gonna realize that we fail because the the gift of salvation isn't that we are that we can act different. It's that we can act different because we see ourselves differently, because God sees ourselves differently. Because that's the biggest thing you learn. I mean, that's one of the biggest things I've been learning over the years is the fact that I have put on an air of who I am. I believe I know who I am, and then I try to change who I am, and I can't do it. And the reason is because I'm already wrong about who I am. From the beginning, I'm already wrong about who I am. You know, the Bible says that I am that I am made in God's image, that I was born perfect, that I was made perfect, and I'm a child of God. And when that becomes my identity first, then those other things that I'm trying to change, it's not actually me changing them. It's me realigning with who I actually am. And, you know, it takes time to to pull that away. What's the what's the line in the Bible that says, you know, you you have you've been born new, you know, you are anyone who is, yeah, you're the new creation has come. The old is gone, the new is here, is what it says, you know. And so so you have been renewed, but it's not that you have been, it's not that you're different, it's that you went back to your original state. You know, you go, you're you're able to reconnect with your original state, which is perfect child of God. And and that's such a big difference, is like I'm no longer seeing myself as a combination of the events of my past. I'm no longer seeing myself, or I'm trying not to see myself, right, as as a person who is, you know, trying to fix all the mistakes of my past. They're all wiped clean. I mean, that's the gospel. Like they they've literally been wiped clean, they have they are gone, and I get to start totally 100% new and fresh as a in as a new creation of God. And that's a whole different thing. It's not about changing my behavior, it's about changing who I see and who who I am.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

I look at the Jewish faith and I look at what the word faith in Judaism means. Yes. And it's very different. It doesn't mean belief, it actually means covenant. Yeah. And there's a very specific uh if you look at Jeremiah 31, 31 to 33, if you look at Luke 22 to 20, he talks very specifically about once you have faith, you're you're making a covenant with God. And there's it's a nuance, but it's a difference. It's not just this, hey, I'm going to believe in something or or it is a this is a a contract between you and God saying, I am going to do certain things, I am going to obey you. And I also understand that the things you are going to do, quote unquote, for me, has already really been done. I mean, it's been done through Jesus, it's been done through creation, but it is it's an identity shift in who we are. And I think unfortunately, what a lot of people do is they read the Bible and they think the Bible is about themselves. Like, okay, if I do this, then this will happen. And even if we read Proverbs, we know with Solomon being the wisest, that wasn't the case. It was probability. If you do this, you're more probable of this. But like you said before, Jason, me leaning on the table, it could snap right now. Probability is if a table's old enough and it's been rotted out enough, at some point it's not going to hold my weight. Yeah. So what we have to move to is this identity of shift of who we are and whose we are. And hopefully that that changes our approach to uh everything we do, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Well, you came, you just came back to where we were. No, I think that's right where I was.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I think that's truly the first step of we were just talking about um having faith, but also taking action within that faith, which kind of combines exactly what you're saying, is the covenant. And I think that's a good reminder, a good perspective to have. If if you have that reverence for God, which is tough at first, right, to actually grasp everything that you just pretty much accept it to at first. But once you do, you you start to realize it starts to change you. And if you accept it, you keep it open, you have that faith that he can. You know, Romans 12:1 says, you know, do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And that's exactly what happens when you accept it. You're you're don't continue to conform to what you have done, but reopen to the fact that you will be renewed in your mind. God will make you a new because you are a new. I don't want to say creature, I hate saying creature, but you're a new creation. You're you're new in his his kingdom. You're you're his son, his daughters, you know, so which I think is a beautiful covenant.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yeah. And I I think it's also important to say, too, that look for for especially the newer Christians, you can't expect to have the depth of this faith, you know, or the that you know, this very quickly. And and first Peter even says, like, newborn babies crave pure spiritual milk so that by it you may grow up in your salvation. Like he's even acknowledging that like you gotta grow. You gotta grow in that. And just like I said in the beginning, like I can't, I'm not gonna jump on this desk the very first time I ever I ever get. I'm not gonna do a you know jump from the top rope and elbow it. But you know, I'm gonna start with a couple, you know, a couple little knocks here, a couple of knocks there, and see where it goes. But anyway, I I just think that's an important thing. Like, you shouldn't, you shouldn't feel like you have to walk in the first day and be, you know, fully 100%, you know, in the in the spirit.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

What's really cool about what you just said, and it just it just hit me, is you know, you're like, I'm not gonna jump off the top ropes to the table, is also what our thought is when we first accept it, which is, you know, the table is meant to put things on, to rest things on, to eat off of things like that. I'm leaning on it right now. Um, but if I do jump all my weight on it, I have to expect it's not gonna hold me up because my faith is is not based now on what it's actually made for. It's based on what I'm making it for me. And that's something that I think a lot of people do, where they go, okay, I've accepted Jesus. My life should be easier, everything should be perfect, all these things are gonna happen. And and they read the Bible. And as I said, sometimes people read the Bible and they think it's about them rather than God's testimony about who he is and his character. And I start to use the Bible wrong, just like I'm using the table wrong. And when it crumbles, I blame the table versus my actions that was probably doing it the wrong way. I was using it the wrong way. So you saying that just kind of triggered me. That it's very important.

Bible Habits And Church Community

SPEAKER_01 16:08

That is so simple but so profound, I think. The way you describe that, David. I think that's exactly it. At first, when we were talking about, I thought the table was like God, but God is not a table. But yeah, you know, the your faith, that's a good description of it and being that way, being used for the right thing in a sense. I mean, give or take, right? These are these are hard to explain these things, but I think that's a good analogy of of what the faith is and leading it towards. I think a lot of people do that. They they they they put their faith in this, this is not happening. This is I want to get this, or I want to live out. I want to dabble in both, right? I want to dabble in the world, but I also want to dabble in like being pure or something like that. And you need to realize that when you're walking in that, God wants you to be transformed. Like I said, back in Romans 12, 1, 2, is like He wants you to transform, He He wants you to be let go of the world and renew of your mind, really transform and walk away and repent. And you start seeing your life differently. And that was that's my story, that's my testimony. You know, I I fought the faith for a really long time. I was really putting in the putting it away at arm's length. I didn't, I always say God was calling me, I didn't want to pick up. And for me, was I was afraid of what that looks like to follow God. I was afraid of letting go of certain things that I wanted to live out. And not until I gave my life to Christ and fully gave my life to Christ, I started seeing that the stuff I wanted before, the th the stuff that I was afraid of, it doesn't matter anymore. I was living a different life. I was living a better life, I think, and I had a better perspective on life, relationships, purpose, and it just re-totally for me, it re definitely this holds true. 12, 12 Romans 12, 1 to 2, it really renewed my not my mind. I was totally renewed.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

I I also think it's important to give people another piece of practical advice, which is you know, yes, the Bible's there and you should read it. And yes, you know, prayer is there and accessible to you and you should read it. But I think one of the most important things that I found when I came back was becoming a part of the community of the church that you choose. Yeah. Because relationships, yeah. You know, yeah. I mean, it's well, the other thing is, and it's relationships, but it's also if you're a new believer or even you know, you've been a believer for a long time, you haven't been opening your Bible, saying I accept Jesus doesn't mean you know what chapter and verse to open up all the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Right? It doesn't like you can't just open the Bible and read the whole Bible every time you have a problem. Like you have to know where to go. You have to know which parts to choose and which parts to um, you know, which parts are relevant to me today, and you know, so forth and so on. So, I mean, obviously, you should always be reading the Bible, but you know, maybe, you know, do a devotional, maybe, you know, join a Bible study, maybe, you know, become part of a small group because there's just as much of all of this available to you in the individuals of the church as there are in the pastors of the church many times. And I know for me that was a really powerful, you know, next step was was just being around people who A, kept me accountable as well, but also B could guide me when I didn't know where I was looking or what I was thinking of or what I what I needed. And a lot of times, look, the reality is if I knew what I needed all the time, I probably wouldn't need God. So, but I do. I do definitely 100% not know what I need. I I lived 25 years like that, and I'm I'm pretty clear on that at this point. Thanks, God, you taught me. But, you know, so it takes other people to show you when you are not doing it right. Uh it takes other people to show you the the benefits, actually, the benefits of doing it right. Like, you know, if if you're reading the Bible and becoming a better person and yet nobody around you sees the change, you know, you're gonna get down in yourself and you go, I haven't changed that much because you don't have the perspective of seeing how much you've changed. Um, so again, being being a part of that community of the church that you choose, or even, and maybe this is like anti-church, but becoming a part of a community that isn't even associated with one particular church or with multiple different churches, you know. I mean, I think you can you you we don't have to get all tribalistic and say this church is the only church out there. The church of God is the church of people who gather in his name. So if you find a group at one church and you find another group at another church, that's perfectly fine, no harm, no foul. But find something that fills your spirit with God and keeps pouring God into you and in a place that keeps you accountable. I think that's another really, really important thing you can do.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah, I think community is big. I was mentioning before relationships, and you're right, community is to me, the church is an easy way to build that community. And for me, where when I found Christ, it was in Los Angeles, where I am not from, and I was there visiting, I was not visiting, I was living there for about four or five years. And no, I didn't really have much friends and family. I did have friends that maybe weren't really following like that, but the cu the community that I built there made me feel at home. It helped me guide me. I joined groups that helped me guide me. I I failed many times. I I Bible thumped, you know, I I thought that this is you know, like, you know, like I I went the wrong ways about it. And that's all part of you know following Christ. I I would say if anyone is hearing us to like take it slowly. No, to go in fully. I'm just saying that if you're still trying to figure it out, you're trying to, you know, it's normal to like really try to figure out what you just accept it because or rededicated yourself because you know it's it's it's unfamiliar maybe, but we're saying community is big, but community, you're right, Jason. For me, community was maybe one of the top ones for me and really following God daily.

The Race Forward And Encouragement

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah. I mean, humans, humans are also a reflection of yourself too. It's like you're watching being I I think that we're people who need validation sometimes. And like if we have somebody who can, you know, who says, Hey, look, that was really cool that you did that. And then we go, Oh, yeah, it wasn't really cool that I did that. Like to me, it was nothing but oh, it was something, it actually meant something. Like, or you know, or hey, you shouldn't be doing that. Or, you know, I know a lot of the men's groups I go to, there's, you know, people are struggling with things, and when they do struggle with them and they come and they go, you know, I almost didn't come because I, you know, I committed this thing that I didn't want to commit. And that's and and the people always around them are like, no, the best thing you can do after you screw up is come here and you know, let us sit with you in it and whatever you did and how to get through it. And again, that's just not something you get on a regular basis. And that's that's where you kind of see the hand of God. Interplaying and saying, you know, what you're doing is the right thing and you're moving in the right direction. You're not perfect, but you have your, like you said earlier, Javi, your eyes are on me and you are running the race with your eyes on me. And although you might falter from time to time, your eyes are still on me, and I, and that's that's the point. So yeah, I mean, look, guys, the the acceptance is a humongous moment. But as David said in the beginning, it is the first step. It is the it is the first step of a very long race, and it is a marathon, and you will stumble, and that is okay. And you will act out of character that you feel ashamed of, probably. But guess what? That's okay because our God doesn't judge you based on that mistake. Um, our our God only cares that you stand up after falling down in the race and keep running in that direction, or walking in that direction, or crawling in that direction, or staring in the direction, wishing you could move. But you but as long as you don't turn around and go back to the starting line, that's that's you know, that's where where you really got to work it out. So yeah. So, guys, anybody out there who needs that encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

I I I I that that's beautiful. I think that is because you when you said about the race thing, I mean, well, I said before, but like it's you're like celebrating at the starting line, you know, when you accept the Christ, and now you got the race to go. And and I think that's beautiful because that that really warms my heart because man, it's such a beautiful thing to know that you could eventually stumble, go about it slowly, run at a stupid pace or keep a good pace, and God is still clapping you on, still shouting out for you, going, I want you to come, come, come, come. Keep continuing to go towards me, but don't go back. That's one thing runners do not do, they don't run back.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah, yeah. You've never seen a runner, like runners occasionally and you know what's funny, actually, now that we're using the running analogy, you know, the one thing you're not supposed to do when you're running a race is never look back at your competitors. Like, oh, it's easy, it's it's easy to look back, and you know, I think there's a temptation to look back, right? And like aware. And if you're looking back to say, hey, this is how far I've come, I think that's a that's a benefit, that's a positive. Um, but if you're looking back and going, man, I miss it back there. If you're looking back and going, that part of the race was a lot prettier than this part of the race, like you don't want to do that, right? That's not what you want to do. So, you know, eyes, eyes forward and you're always gonna you're always gonna get in in the way, in the way that God wants you to be, and in a way that's edifying to to God and and beneficial to you. So yeah. So, guys, if you're if you're somebody out there who rededicated, who dedicated for the first time or decided for the first time, congratulations on starting a really satisfying, very fulfilling race with your eyes turned towards the real goal in life, and probably the only, definitely the only goal worth chasing in life. So we applaud you for that and we hope that you continue running your race. And we'll be on the sidelines with our hands out, clapping your hands and handing you water as you go. So thanks for your time, your considerations, your thoughts. Give us the shares, the comments, the likes, and all those. It helps us to get more people and reach more people. And you know what? Even more than that, share this podcast with somebody. If there's whether it's this episode, whether it's another episode, if there's somebody you you feel could use this encouragement that we give on a weekly basis, we would love to be able to be shared with them as well. That probably even better than a share comment or a like. And of course, reach out to us, let us know how you're doing. And we appreciate that too. So thanks a lot, guys. Happy after Easter and happy race running. We'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

See you guys.