SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, how's it going, guys? I'm glad to be back. I was thinking about something, and I actually had a question for you guys to start off today. There are a lot of people who complain about a manager or a boss they have. And we know that in today's world, there's a lot of complaints, but there's also some people who just had a phenomenal manager, someone who seems to know everything, gets everything right, and gives some really great wisdom and advice. And if you guys experienced that in your life, I'd love to know the story of somebody who just gave you amazing wisdom or advice who was in a leadership position.

SPEAKER_01: 0:35

Oh man. Yeah. You know, this is going to sound like pandering based on the conversation we're about to have, but the the delegation. Delegation is the most important leadership trait you can have. And it's not because you want to give other people things to do so you don't have to do them. It's you empower those people with the information they need in order to do what they have to do, and then allow them to do it. And once you allow them to do it, you can that frees you up and other people up to focus their attention on the things they're doing and to do them well. Easier said than done. But it is it is definitely the number one piece of advice that I've been given.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20

That's good. What about you, Hub? That's good. That's good. There's so many that I do not remember. There's so many I do not remember. The first thing I I could think about what I felt or what I've gotten from leaders that or managers that I've came across is always just trusting yourself, right? Like like you're good enough, right? And giving me that empowerment that um who I am is enough and showing up within that with that intention. So I think that's one thing I've gotten from my one of my some of my great leaders or people that I looked up to, or people that are a little bit ahead of me and looking back at me and you know, through my career or different things that going, hey, you're good enough, just kind of walk forward in it, take action in it, you know. I know David reminds me of that every single time.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09

Yeah. David, do you have do you have one? I I do, but what's funny is mine wasn't a manager of mine. It's someone I watched manage a lot of people. And I'm gonna give a shout out to my wife who uh manages people her entire life, that the entire time I've known her. And I had to do a performance review, and I was just struggling with a couple of people to do a review on. And her advice was listen, before you do the review, ask them where they feel they are, because you get to know what if you're on the same page or or if you have to start over with uh, hey, listen, you think you're doing great, but you're way off, or you think you're not doing well in which you are. So it's just gauging somebody of where they are. And I know I probably butchered the advice she gave because she gave it much more eloquently, but it really was great advice to see where somebody was before you start to review them to see if they are on the same page as you. And if you're not, get on the same page first, and then you can start to challenge them and how to improve. Yeah, that's super advice. Or if they're in a position where they they they don't want to improve and you know that.

SPEAKER_01: 3:09

But they think they're already nailing it, right? So yeah. You know, the the other one, since we're doing this, the other one is be on time and always do what you say you're gonna do, right? That's a those are those are two of the most simple pieces of advice that anybody can ever get, but kind of kind of off topic. So so why don't you tell us why you asked that question?

SPEAKER_03: 3:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:24

Well, it also ages us because a lot of people today are not on time, they just feel like they get the work done. It's a difference in in generations, I heard. Oh wow, because I am I'm a you know, being on time is five minutes late. So I'm I'm that guy. Um, but the reason I ask is obviously today we're gonna be talking about another small character that made a big impact. These are hidden hidden heroes, and this one comes directly from Exodus, and this is Moses's father-in-law, or becomes his father-in-law, Jethro, also sometimes known as Ruel, he's actually named it several ways, but he is the priest of Midian, uh, and he is somebody who gives tremendous leadership advice to Moses, which is why I thought of that question. But before that even gets to that point, we have to understand who this person is. And it's really incredible because when Moses is in Egypt and he kills an Egyptian and he flees and he runs and he goes through the desert, ends up in Midian. You have this gentleman, and his his first thing that he does is he takes Moses into his home. And you have to realize at this point, Moses is a murderer, so he invites a murderer into his house, then further than that, gives the murderer one of his daughters, then gives him a job. So he has a home to live, one of his daughters, and a job. And right off the bat, I'm I'm I mean, I'm a dad, I'm going, no, no, no way. Yeah, there's no way any of that's happening. But but he did, he found this person exactly where they were and still had an open home. Did he know that he was a murderer? The the again going off of not the Bible, but going off of Jewish books, the Midrash, there, there are other Jewish ancient books at the time. What they said was the trade route would have notified that this was a big occurrence. It wasn't like there were oftentimes, you know, Egyptians being killed in that way by beating a Israelite. So the trade route, which was on the way to Midian as well, would have gotten there, would have told him that he would have known already that this person, Moses, an Egyptian prince, again, this is a an Egyptian prince at this point, killed an Egyptian and then flee. So there are books that say yes, he would have.

SPEAKER_03: 5:46

Interesting. I mean, Jethro is a is an is a really interesting character, I think, and the way he kind of holds himself and how he sees the the patriarch, right? Of of the town, but most of all the family. And I think what he saw in Moses when I read the the scripture is he saw this man, although alone and just kind of by himself. Don't know much about him, but one thing I do know is he took care of my daughters, and that's something to say about him. So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm going to invite him into my home. I'm going to you know bless him with with community. And I think in time he goes, Hey, take one of my daughters, my seven daughters, I think, and and marry her. So I think that that he saw something in Moses that maybe Moses, especially at the time, did not see.

SPEAKER_00: 6:34

Yeah, definitely. And and we we should point out, and I didn't before, this is somebody who did not believe in the God of Israel. This was a Gentile.

SPEAKER_01: 6:42

Well, he was a he was a Midianite priest, and they were not Hebrew Israelites, but it was, I think it was the same God, or at least it was a a similar they were Semitic, right? They were Abrahamic uh uh so it's it's in the vein, but it was not Israelites or Hebrew people.

SPEAKER_00: 7:03

Correct. Correct. And and then kind of uh, you know, Javi right, you know, listen, he took care of his daughters at the well, and he ended up marrying one of them. And what also happens is you now have this person who comes in your home, gets a job, takes your daughter, and then he gets a uh Moses gets a message from God, and he is telling Jethro, hey, I I have to leave. I have to go. So he's like, Thanks for coming, thanks for taking a job. You're leaving me, you know, high and dry, and taking one of my daughters, and you're going back to Israel or I mean to Egypt, where they want to kill you, and just the whole thing, uh, the the amount of faith that Jethro had in whether this was the plan of God or had faith in Moses, I'm not sure. It it seems to be the wording that he had the faith in of God in this, but to have that amount of faith that quickly without truly knowing this God yet.

SPEAKER_01: 7:58

To be fair, to be fair, that was about 40 years though, wasn't it? Like from the time that he arrived until the time he ended up leaving. I mean, I think he had a chance to prove himself a bit. So no, yeah. It's I I think that's that's an important point, too, right? So it's forty, it's forty years. Very true, right? He so again, for the people who you know haven't read Exodus lately, and probably should because it's a great read. Moses is born and raised in well, he's not born, he's he's raised uh uh an Egyptian prince, and he ultimately grows up and he kills an Egyptian who is abusing, I guess, a Hebrew worker. And he finds out that people know, and that's and that's why he leaves, right? And so he leaves and and then he gets he's on the road to to leaving, and this is where Javi, you mentioned that you know he he's what is it, he takes care of the cattle or he helps him.

SPEAKER_03: 8:49

He's by a well, or yeah, right. He's by a well, he helps him out with the cattle, and then he also helps water from the well for the right, which he had no reason to do.

SPEAKER_01: 8:59

So it was kind of a content of your character type thing, right? Yeah, and then as and then that's when that's when you know Jethro steps in and goes, Hey, you know, maybe you're not so bad. And so, you know, he he marries and then he's 40 years, and then then God says, Burning bush. It's burning bush time. I'm calling it.

SPEAKER_03: 9:17

Uh Moses gets a message from God. Uh first thing I thought, like he got this text message from God. Like the way you kind of the way you laid it out. I was like, oh, this is interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 9:27

Yeah, right. Yep. He gets he gets he gets a text message.

SPEAKER_03: 9:29

Well, that's how that's how we all talk to you.

SPEAKER_01: 9:31

That's how we all talk to God, right? We get a text message and he's like, Hey, I need you at church on Sunday. And you're like, Okay, see you there, Pass.

SPEAKER_00: 9:36

The other thing is uh we're Exodus 216, just so everyone also understands. Um, this is where this is where Jethro comes in, is Exodus 216. Yeah, but you're right. So, so we're gonna fast forward a little bit. Yeah, now we get now we get to the good because Moses does go back to to Egypt and a lot happens there, and we and we're all the plagues, and this is the part of the Exodus that most people remember and know. These are the plagues, the parting of the Red Sea, the the Passover, the you know, moving, yep, moving into the desert, the wilderness, the tabernacle. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. And and then we get back to the point where Moses is now back with Jethro. And this is the part where when I asked the question uh about wisdom from a manager, this is where I think Jethro just shines. And and Moses is handling all of these problems that all the Israelites have. And we're led to believe there's hundreds of thousands of them, and they're all coming to him as the leader, going, Hey, I need you to fix something. There's a problem that I have an argument with my neighbor, I have an argument with my spouse, I have something's going on, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I'm whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02: 10:45

My toy is fielding all of it.

SPEAKER_00: 10:48

Yeah, that's it. And he and he's feeling fielding all these. So now you have Israel's greatest leader who's about to get coaching from somebody who is not an Israelite.

SPEAKER_01: 11:00

Yeah. And and again, a tiny bit more context. Like this is when they're already in the wilderness, right? They've already left, they've gone through the Red Sea, they're in the wilderness. They are, I think they've even gone to the he's they've already done the golden calf thing at this point, I think. And so they're in the wilderness. It's now like, you know, resetting the community and the establishment and resetting the you know, the society of that. And like you said, there's hundreds of thousands of them, or thousands or tens of thousands at least, and everybody has a problem with everybody, and they need somebody to judge it. They didn't have judges at the time, they had a single individual who was to help them resolve their issues, and that was the problem. There was a single individual, which is when uh our friend Jethro arrives and they they greet each other as as old family and old friends, and he says, What are you doing? What are you why are you doing all this? Like you're spending your entire day and night dealing with these people's trivial things, yeah, and you're not leading your people through the wilderness. You're not leading them through to the to the next level. You're not able to open up enough of your time to make the real impactful steps you need because you're dealing with who stole whose bread and why did he look at your woman like that? Like that it's not useful stuff, right? And and again, going back to your business thing, like there are times when there are things you can make an impact in your business, in your career, in your family, but if you're dealing with all of the details all of the time, you're not dealing with the impactful things, you're just reacting to the small things. And again, the reason the reason I wanted to go back through all of that history is because we mentioned in the beginning that Jethro is not a Hebrew, right? He's a Midianite priest. But what has he seen since Moses left? He saw the God of Israel, yeah, take on all the gods of Egypt and said, This is the God who I now fear. I think that's close to word for word, right? This is I I under I now fear this God. I understand this God, and I want to help you with this situation, knowing that your God is the true God.

SPEAKER_00: 13:03

Yep. And and just being the archaeological nerd that I am, they they actually do have they found a lice comb near Midian uh during the time of the dated down during the time of the plagues. So when you have lice as one of the plagues, again, how far spread they went could have been that far because they actually have lice combs that they found there with prayer to God to stop the lice from coming, which is just a really cool, like man, you know, for anybody who says, Hey, that might have just been a story, did that really happen?

SPEAKER_03: 13:31

You actually have archaeological proofs as far as Midians actually combed the desert to find a yes. Did you just do a throwback?

SPEAKER_01: 13:40

You that was a total throwback. Spaceball, space balls, space ball reference, space ball. It's funny when old men have old references. I enjoy it. It's a classic.

SPEAKER_00: 13:49

But no, you you're you're you're right on Jason. And I, you know, aside from that, Jethro's also attributed at that moment when all this is happening, he says Baruch Hashem. He is saying, blessed be to God. I didn't know what that meant. And he is the first person. Well, the Bar Hashem is one of the terminologies that Jewish people use almost, I mean, all the time. Yeah. I would say probably 10, 15 times a day, their response is, you know, oh, how are you feeling? Baruch Hashem. I'm I'm blessed be God, I'm doing great. And it's just something that came, that terminology actually came from the Bible. This is uh Exodus 18, 10. Is he one of the first to say? This is where Jethro, he's the first. No way, really. So somebody who is a non-Hebrew and non-Israelite put in probably the most famous terminology ever used by any Hebrew in the entire world, is Baruch Hashem. And that was where it's attributed to. So yeah, he, I mean, he is just full force fearing and loving the Lord at the same time.

SPEAKER_01: 14:47

Well, I think that's where where this gets really interesting, right? Because then comes the actual advice, right? Then comes the actual advice, which is what are you doing? There's instead of you answering every trivial question and every meaningal, meaningless thing, you need to set up a system of, you know, people for the what is what is the terminology, the tens, the fifties, the hundreds, and the thousands or something?

SPEAKER_03: 15:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:10

Like so he basically sets up a hierarchy of, I'm gonna I'm gonna use the word judges for obvious reason in a moment, but he sets up this this like tree of judges or this hierarchy of judges so that people can deal with things on the small, on the medium, the large, and the macro. And and he's the first to do that as well. What's that? He's the first to teach. I mean, it's it's it's delegation. I mean, that's what I'm saying. I I kind of pandered to that question, but not on purpose. But but he he did that. He was the first one to do that. And then now you jump forward, and if you know your Bible, you know, you go Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers. Where did I skip judges? Oh, yeah, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, judges, right? We get to the judges portion, and and judges is is how the people were ruled. So the actual how they would be ruled before kings came from Jethro.

SPEAKER_00: 15:57

That's cool. Yeah. Oh, 100%. Uh and I'll tell you something else that's interesting. And this is uh a little bit of history that that is again. Now we're coming from Jewish scripture that is not uh Bible, it's not canon, but this is uh different parts of the Bible. They, I mean different parts of Jewish writing, they actually look at the golden calf differently. So the golden calf, what it ends up being is the golden calf is not a replacement for God. Stay with me. Yeah, because a lot of people right now are going, this isn't right. I said, no, no. So what they did was it was Moses who did not come down the mountain in time. And what what of the Jewish script of the Jewish Jewish pamphlets say is that this was he was five minutes too late. That's what he was. He was five minutes too late, and then they made this golden calf. And what they were doing is they were waiting for leadership, not for a God to replace. They were following a leader, the leader didn't come down, and the five minutes is just it's symbolic saying, you know, anytime we're waiting for something, it's always going to be five minutes too late. But they're waiting for this leader to come down, and what they decide to do is make another leader. And the way they prove that is at that moment, God is on the mountain with Moses saying, Hey, your people are doing this, showing that they're doing it because of him, your people, not because it's the your people.

SPEAKER_01: 17:15

Oh, that's a good one. We actually talked about that the other day. Why is why are God's people your people all of a sudden when they screw up? And that's not what he meant. That's not what he meant. He meant they're putting it out.

SPEAKER_00: 17:24

Your people are exactly interested. And so what is happening now is you have these Israelite people who don't have a leader who are falling onto the golden calf. Jethro, with his wisdom, say, Hey, I'm not only setting this up so you get to breathe, but also for these people, they need to know in your absence who they can go to because otherwise they're gonna make a golden calf. Um, so this is now when you start looking at the Midrash and some of the other writings, this is what they believe was the case. You just broke my brain a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 17:56

I but I but I mean it in the best way. Like here, we the people need someone. It's not that I mean, yes, we need God, right? We know we need God, but we also, because we are limited, we need someone to follow. We need something to follow. And in this case, it wasn't saying, like you said, it wasn't that they were building a new God, it's they were building something to follow, something to put their eyes on, something to put their vision on, because they didn't have it. And so it it just reinforces the importance of leadership in the church, right? It reinforces, it reinforces the need for leadership in all things human, but it it really enforces it in in church space, because if not, people are gonna go haywire.

SPEAKER_03: 18:40

Yeah, I I I always say, like I always, you know, I don't have any kids, but one of the things that I've noticed as you know, for us humans, we want we want discipline, you know, we we need it in our life, we need direction, we need, you know, everything else, love and hope and all that stuff too. But when it comes to like structure, we need it. And we're calling for our souls, need it. And that's why I think you're right. Like, if I can't trust nobody else, I'm gonna trust in myself, right? And in in a in a what do you call it, non-Christian kind of way, right? But people we I think our hearts is called for God, right? It's made for God, and that's why we always need that. If we don't have God in our life, then everything else become our God, and we we try to follow that in that way and try to follow that the best we can with you know with wisdom or kind of direction. And I think that I think you said a good point, Derek, Jason. I think we are we're always yearning for that call from something higher or or more to be able to direct us and lead us.

SPEAKER_00: 19:39

We're what we're physical smarter is because you you have you have the wisdom of God, which we know. God's wisdom was exactly what you said, Jason. They need to follow something, they need to see something tangible that they're following. God knew this. So what he did is he did the tabernacle with the cloud that was gonna follow the tabernacle, so they had something to follow. Prior to that, Jethro knew it by Moses. They are following you, they're following something tangible. You need to divide yourself so they have multiple places to follow, otherwise, they're gonna be left to their own reserve and then they're gonna make a golden calf. Well, so this is I mean, I see I see it in my own life.

SPEAKER_01: 20:16

I mean, look, and I think we all see it in our lives, whether we admit it or not, but it's is that we we want to follow God, we believe in God, but if we don't see the fruit of God quickly, we end up straying a little bit too, or we end up going, yeah, I'm not seeing it. So let me like turn my direction somewhere else. Let me see some fruit quickly. Let me find, let me, let me find the low-hanging fruit because there's no you know other fruits.

SPEAKER_02: 20:37

I think we all yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:39

I mean, we're I mean, if we do make our own calves, unfortunately. But the the you know what's really interesting, and I hadn't realized previously either, is you know why Jethro acknowledged it, partially, I'm sure, because God revealed it to him, but but he was a Midianite priest. He understood from years and years and years of being a priest how quickly people can stray. And he knew the power of his own leadership in keeping his people in line. And you know, it's it's sorry, it's also a another one of the millions of illusions towards Jesus later, right? We like we need a physical, visual, visceral, tangible uh uh thing, uh person, uh property to follow, and and Jesus was ultimately the one that gave us that.

SPEAKER_00: 21:55

100%. And and listen, I I know this isn't a golden calf episode, but it just it leads it leads so well into this. But when when you think about the golden calf, when you look at how it was made, this was made by gold that came from typically the women that typically came brought it, yep, that that took it from the Egyptians. So, what you have more than anything is we look at things two ways. We look at we have influence for people to come to the kingdom, we want to spread the gospel and all of that. We also have the power of taking other people's things and making a golden cage. And what we're doing is we're taking somebody else's precious things, something given to them by their wives, their husbands, their kids, whatever it is, whatever their trinkets are. We're using that and building our own God or our own leader out of it. And we can use this for good and bad. And I think that Jethro is looking at it going, hey, listen, as a leader, you can either use this for good or bad. I think you need to, yes, you need rest. I'm gonna give you this so you have rest, but I'm also seeing what these people and what people, like you said, in general, because I've been a priest for a long time, what they do. And people will follow the shiny object, even if it's throwing away somebody else's precious things. Totally. And I'm bitch, man, it's humanity right here.

SPEAKER_01: 23:14

It's so humanity and it's so consistent with our with our behavior, right? Even today. It's so Javi nailed it. It's it's the it's the shiny thing, right? And we get we turn to the shiny thing because we we're just like that. I want to add something else to that too, which you're you're saying as the things that people had that we turn into that. And I've often thought of it the other way around. Remember, who gives them that gold in the first place? God gave them that gold in the first place. God was the one who told them before they left Egypt to go gather the silver and gold. So the gold that he gave them, instead of taking that gold and saying, This is gold that God gave me, and I'm gonna appreciate the gold that God gave me, they took that gold and like, I'm gonna make something else out of this. And then they made something else that he gave. And then they that, you know, then they they turned their focus on the thing that they made, despite the fact that it was actually given by him. And so it's like we again, another thing that we do in our daily lives, we are given so many blessings and so many gifts and so much, so much abundance. And then we do something little with that abundance and we pat ourselves on the back for having done something with that abundant. It's like, no, I mean, yeah, sure, great, I did this thing, but I still couldn't have done this thing had God not, you know, given it and provided it in the first place.

SPEAKER_03: 24:23

What I got out of love it. What I got out of what Jethro kind of gave, and I and I love what you guys are saying, and you're and you're right. I think what what I'm reading too from like Exodus 22 is saying that you know, this will make your load lighter by having appointing other judges and handle the the small little tasks that will continue to weigh on you and hold you back from being the leader that you're called to be. And I think there there's truth behind that. And it's it's it's it reminds me of I don't know the right verse, but that we're all a part of the body. I think it's first Corinthians, and we're all part of the body, and we're all played a part. And one can the hand can't do what the eye does, and the eyes can't do what the ear does. And I think there's there's a truth behind that in this body in in coming as one and uniting as one to for one goal. And I think as Moses being, let's say, the brain, right, of this pack, he can't hold and he can't do everything by he can't, he just can't take on everything that he's called to do by being this one judge to answer all these small little stuff. And it says, like, by doing this, you would have they'll they would leave home satisfied. They're looking at you because you are the leader, but if you appoint other leaders for that, they would they will start to get used to it and know that whatever judges, whatever decision they come out of, what if this whatever decisions they make, they'll be satisfied with that. You know, sometimes you all want to run towards the pastor, the lead pastor, and go, tell me, tell me, tell me, or like give me advice, but they don't realize that we have other pastors, we have other people that are appointed to help out with with you and whatever is going on with you in your life. And there's there's truth behind that in counsel right from you guys. I I get counsel from you guys, you know, even though you guys are not besides David, maybe this pastor, right? Or there's this, you know, you know, this educated, you know, fully you guys are educated, but like you know what I'm saying, like I'm very good at I'm very good at being an elbow. How do you just say it?

SPEAKER_01: 26:19

I'm very good at being an elbow. I'm a very solid elbow. But I'm you are the best elderly.

SPEAKER_03: 26:23

Let me just land the plane there. I just think for me, it's there's a truth behind that in leadership. And I think you mentioned before, Jason, just delegation and not delegation to take on task that I do not want to do, but let me focus on the vision, let me focus on leading where we're gonna go as a group and the small little stuff that is important and I do want to get to, I don't have to handle that. I'm gonna point to somebody else that has wisdom, you know, that has a good character and be able to judge that for you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 26:50

And and look, you you touched on this already, but I want to push it out even further. We're talking right now, you're talking about the leadership, and you're saying that other people can do other things, and there's other people in the church. And maybe that's for the people who are listening now. It's like you don't have to be the leader of the church to be useful in the body of God. You don't have to be the above the head and shoulders to be useful. You you can be any member of the body of Christ and be useful. I mean, look, look at look at what Jethro is saying. I mean, there's people for the 50s, there's people for the tens, or, you know, for the for the tens, the 50s, the hundreds, and the thousands, right? So you can be useful in the group of the 10. You know, you can, you can, you can help guide your smaller sphere of influence and be just as useful. And yeah, you might hit a point where you don't know, and then you lift it up to the next person and you say, you know, hey, I think I might have reached my depth and I want to pass this on to you. That's the that's the one thing I want to say. I think every it the point is that everybody can be useful.

SPEAKER_00: 27:46

I mean, listen, we're bringing this kind of back to all the way back around uh at Jethro. And I I look at Jethro and I say, you know, listen, uh Solomon we looked at as the wisest man in the Bible. Jethro might be number two. Uh he had a tremendous amount of wisdom. He knew to worship God. He actually was also somebody who sacrificed to God. Yeah. You know, this was somebody who was very wise to who God was and what God desired, but he was also very wise in counsel to Moses and probably moved this new community forward. And I think about that all the time. If I started a new community, what laws, what rules, what would I do? And Jethro was kind of talking about what to do to move this new community forward. And his wisdom was truly beyond even who he was, even being a priest, he was just beyond in wisdom. He's a hero. And I think these these hidden heroes that we talk about, this is exactly who he is. He is a hidden hero that not necessarily gets a lot of conversation. Not a lot of people talk about him in in church, not a lot of people talking Bible study, but because of his faith and because of his wisdom, did he really, I mean, just become a phenomenal leader to Moses, who was the leader of all this. He's a great example.

SPEAKER_03: 29:02

Because Moses was such a, you know, he hesitated, he had a lot of fear, he felt like he wasn't good enough. You know, and these are the people that we need in our lives to go, hey, no, you're good, you're you're you're ready, you're move forward in this, right? Let me love you. Like he did. He took him in. He took Moses in, even through his past, right? He's almost he's almost a reflection of of God and Jesus, right? Like, like you're he gave, he it was grace, right? Like, I'm gonna, you didn't give me anything, you didn't give me much, but I'm gonna allow you to be in my family. I'm gonna give you a daughter, I'm gonna care for you, I'm gonna give you blessings. He redeemed them.

SPEAKER_01: 29:36

Well, it's a it's a mentorship message too. He redeemed mentorship. He didn't love that. It's a mentorship message too. I mean, like one of the things that I was gonna say earlier, and I just kind of like flubbed on a little bit, was that I think the other thing is that you have you have the idea that sometimes we do this journey alone. And if Moses had done this journey alone without Jethro, you know, it it wasn't it wasn't going so well. He did it for a while. I'm not gonna say he could have done it other, you know, but he did do it for a while and it wasn't going very well. He needed somebody in a more senior position or s or in a more experienced position to help lead him into making these good decisions. And there's the implication when you have a hierarchy of judges that each of those judges needed to speak to one another as well, right? They they have to mentor one another, they have to discuss among themselves, you know, what choices they've made recently, what things that they've done recently and shared decisions they've made so that so that everybody can be a little bit better. So I think there's a there's a really important message here that Moses didn't lead the Hebrew Israelite people out of the wilderness alone.

SPEAKER_03: 30:42

No, correct.

SPEAKER_01: 30:43

He and he did it with God, but he also did it with the with the what would become the body of Christ around him to to help move him in that direction. Yeah. And that's why, like you said, I mean, this is this is one of those characters that doesn't get a lot of discussion, but when you do it's you know, it's another one of those boundless moments, right? Like Jethro's a character, you see his conversations, you see his stuff, and you just think it's kind of a plot point, but if you really dig into it, you realize how much there is there.

SPEAKER_03: 31:08

I like that boundless moments.

SPEAKER_01: 31:12

Hidden heroes. So, guys, this has been fun. I I I love finding out things that even though I read the story, I didn't know. And even though I read it twice, I still didn't know. And the more we talk about it, and and here is here's Jethro coming to life right here, right? Like we we get together, we talk, and because we're able to share with one another, we all learn more and we all get more out of it. So I I am thankful to Jethro for what he did. Um, thankful to you guys for continuing to teach me, and we're thankful to the people who are listening for lending us your ear. We hope that we could be helpful and edifying to God, and we hope that you can learn more from him, learn more about him from us. And if there's any questions you have, we'd love to hear them and we'd love to be able to address them here on the show, guys. So thanks as always for listening. We appreciate your time, and we'll see you next week. Later.