SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, I'm going to start off today. I want to tell you a story, but it really is, I think, a shared experience that we've had. And I'm kind of curious if you've had this experience as well in the things that you've done in your life. Okay. So growing up, obviously, I was uh, you know, a fighter. I was training to be a fighter as well. And I spent 25 years on the martial arts. And one of the things that the person who taught me martial arts said was what I did behind closed doors, what I did when he was not around, was more important than what I did in front of him. That I needed to practice and it was good to come to the classes. But then when I left, what I was doing on my own, my own practice time really mattered. That if I continued to practice as though he was standing there the whole time, that's where the improvement comes. So what I do in secret is truly what I was going to be gaining from. Is that is that something you guys have heard or experienced in your in your walks?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00

Yeah, for sure. You know, I I I mean, that's kind of elite athlete stuff right there, right? Like not that I'm an elite athlete, but I I've I've been privy to other people. And, you know, there was actually a really good pastor thing I saw online one time where this guy gets on stage and and he brings this friend on stage, and his friend is super jacked, and he starts saying, Hey, look how big he is and look how strong he is, and they both have on like a like a tank top, and he's looking like he's so huge. He I'm I'm and he looks at himself and clearly he's not as big or whatever. And he goes, you know, we go to the same gym, we go the same days a week, but the difference is when he goes home, he eats healthy and he does other exercises and he also runs and he does cardio and he does these things. He's like, the the difference isn't you know going once a week and doing it once a week, it's what you do every minute of your life. And so that that's the first thing that comes to mind when you say that. Like, and I and I think I think I think we're all guilty of doing this is like showing up for the key things, but then kind of walking away and being like, okay, I'll I'll hold that and I'll hold that in the back of my mind for another time, but not really fully practicing what you preach pun intended, I guess.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01

Not only that, I think what I found maybe in my life is you'll do those things to show up for the big event or whatever it is, and you feel like that would carry you on to the next event, yeah. So, like I am good, I know that knowledge, I know what to do. So that would carry on to the next thing, not knowing that you can need to continue to practice, continue to, you know, work on it. So I think I find that to be true for a lot of people, I would say.

SPEAKER_00: 2:28

Yeah, I agree. And I I related honestly to this is our faith in our walk with Christ, which is you know, how many times does our faith disappear when church is over or when we feel like God's not around? You know, Matthew 6 4, it is your father sees you in secret, will reward you. This is now, hey, I'm no longer showing off in front of people, in front of you know, family, in front of your church. You're alone, and how are you acting that way? And and he's saying God is saying, I'm I'm gonna reward you by seeing you in secret what you're doing. And it just made me think about how I am in secret and the things that I do that would be unacceptable in in his presence, even though I know he's always around. Sometimes we we put on the fake facade in front of people. I just want to take a couple moments today and talk about that with you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 3:20

Yeah, you know, it's interesting because you know, my story is that I was in the church and then I was out of the church, then I was back to the church, right? And one of the things that I've been kind of like wrestling with over the time of coming back is that when I was in the church when I was young, I was young. And that is a very different way to be a part of a church. You're young, you're not really fully immersed in the the fullness of church and raising a family and you know, being the person who's providing for others. And, you know, it's it's just a different experience. And so I used to see it, David. I used to see it a lot as, and especially, you know, as a kid, you know, you're very hyper-aware of the people around you, and you're very aware of the people who are smiling at your face and kind of like, you know, wincing behind your back as you're standing in the church. And so it comes off as fake then. And so there was a part of me that used to think about it as fakeness. And I'm saying this really early in this conversation because I used to see it as faken. And as I got older, I started to say, like, oh, well, look at all these, you know, quote unquote Christians, you know, I'm throwing my quote fingers up, you know, look at all these quote unquote Christians who are, you know, good when people are watching, but not good when they're when they're not paying attention. And I thought it was fake. And when I was, you know, in in the years after that, I would look at Christianity sometimes as, oh, those fake people who are, you know, smile at your face and and you know, scowl behind your back. I say all that to say that what I've come to learn later is like I'm starting to realize that, like you said, you can't really reap the full fruits unless you are fully in the like unless you're unless you're all in, like unless you're every part of your life reflects that part that you're trying to be at church, right? Like you don't go to church on Sunday, you have to pray in the morning on Monday, and you have to pray in the afternoon on Monday, and you have to do a you know devotional on Monday night, and you gotta like it's it's about consistency to where it changes you to where that thing that you're seeing that I used to say was fake, that wasn't faking, that was people really trying to be their better selves. I really believe it wasn't fakeness. I think, you know, they weren't doing it to impress other people. I'm sure there are people. But I think a lot of that is people trying to be their best in front of others and they're held accountable by those others. And so they're able to be their, again, I'm throwing up air quotes, their best selves in that situation. But the way to make it not fake and to make it real is exactly what you said. It's like literally making every part of your life accountable, making making yourself accountable to yourself, making yourself accountable to others even when they're not paying attention. And like I said, I I can't say I know exactly where that's going, other than to say that you started off with this fake, the word fake, and the fake kind of triggered me because I it was a big, it was a big reason I left the church, I think. And as I've been paying attention to it lately, it's a I I I want to believe. Maybe I just want to believe that it's not people are being fake, it's that they're putting on their best face, they're just not always able to do it. And even they don't know why they're not able to do it. And the reason is because they're not fully committing to it as much as they could, and what they if they could, they would see that change in them consistently. That happens to be they would see that yeah good side of them more often.

SPEAKER_02: 6:24

That happens to be my reality, I think, Jason, especially coming to faith. You know, I want to do right and knowing that God is everywhere, right? And he's watching me in everything, so I'm very critical in the things that I do. I'm I'm watching myself in a sense, and I think only when I maybe act in temptation and sin is because I got lazy. I I gave into it. So it's not, yeah, it's not as much as I wanted to, or I was walking around fake and I don't see myself as a fake person. I mean, I'm from New York and it's hard. I think we I think we all appreciate you know true people and people and how they feel. Because if not, then I just move on. You know, like you don't like me, okay. Let's just not talk to each other, let's just move on, kind of thing. But what I came to realize is is that like I am, you know, my sometimes out of fault because my wife will be like, well, do we have to do it this way? And it's like, yes, we have to, let's pray this way, you know, or whatever it is, you know. So let's just try to do what we think we know what to do. And I think the times that I, like I said, going back to it, whenever I give into it, it's is the lack of is the weakness of the body. It's the the weakness giving into temptation and sin whenever I do act indifferently, meaning being angry or being, you know, maybe dismissive, or maybe even being just kind of ungrateful for things, you know. So I think it's just me giving in to those things rather than that's my character or I'm being fake.

SPEAKER_00: 7:44

I mean, let's split it up. I think what what's gonna happen is there's two different avenues here. One is who we truly are and who we truly are with other people, where again that we're kind of in this conversation right now about fakeness, and then who we truly are with God and and the lies and secret life that we try to hide from God, which is a whole different story. But if we split them up and we're already talking about people, uh, you know, Galatians 1.10, if I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. And this is this is how we're called. Again, we we're we're trying to please man by, hey, I'm at church and I don't feel comfortable putting my hands up, and now I'm gonna put my hands up because everyone else is. And I don't want to do something because everybody else, you know, isn't doing it or expects me to do it. And we live a life where some people are faking it, not that they're faking their relationship with God, but they're faking the perception that we want other people to have of us. And like you said, Jason, you know, I'm there worshiping God on Sunday, and by Monday, I'm cursing everybody on the road and and just being somebody who's really not very Christian like the rest of my week. Um, and I think that it's a reality of of what truly happens out there. And I think that yes, there's a perception now on Christians that this is who we are and what we do, and and you know, I think there's honesty to that.

SPEAKER_01: 9:12

I think there, I think there needs to be honesty to it because I think that, like you said, there's a lot of misconceptions about what a Christian is. There's a lot of misconceptions about what Christian should be. And when we talk about, you know, those misconceptions, it's hard for people to go, oh, well you did this bad thing because you're and you're a Christian. Like, yeah, I did bad things or I did this stupid thing because I'm a stupid human. That's why I did it. Like I'm I'm a stupid human and I'd continue to those things. And without God, you'd you don't want to see how stupid how much more stupid I would be and how much more I would how many more worse things I would do. I mean, me being a Christian doesn't make me perfect. It it only makes me slightly better, and it's only slightly better because that the the things that I'm deciding to do or choosing to do or God is telling me this is the way to do that, not the way you want to do it, dummy. And you know, I I think that that misconception is is really important. And when you break down that misconception, you start to get to the to the real feeling of what I what identity is, right? Like our identity in Christ is that we are Christians who are broken people, who are following a God who is better than we are, who's less fickle than we are, who is more clearly aware of the consequences of our actions than we are. And and that's a really important thing to come to terms with in your identity, because even even still, like I get really frustrated myself for anything I do wrong because I want to be good in God's eyes. I want to be good in my own eyes, but I want to be good in God's eyes. And I, man, I make mistakes all the time and I do stuff and I say things, and I'm like, why did you do that? Like, why? And for the longest time I beat myself up for it, but I'm starting to get to a point where I'm not beating myself up for it. I'm using it as an opportunity to go, yep, there's another stupid thing I would do. What would Jesus like me to do? Like it, and and when I get that sense of my identity as it relates to God's identity, I can see myself with more compassion. I can see myself with more grace, and I can start to give other people when they do stupid things, because other people do stupid things too. I can give them the grace to say, oh, look, you and me are the same. We're both dumb humans who do dumb things. And guess what? If you had God, you might make a few less dumb mistakes like I do. Like, but it's it's not a it's not this like, and this is just a thing that I'm still trying to wrestle with is like growing up in the church, that's not what you learn. You learn that Christians are better. Yeah. You learn that you learn that, you know, Christians have God by their side, and therefore, you know, all power is at their back and they can do all and through all things that Christ they can do. And yet they yell at people and they are mean to people and they ignore people and they talk bad about people. Like it's again, it's just trying to trying to come to the terms with the reality of the identity, not the perception of the identity.

SPEAKER_00: 11:49

I love that. What it reminds me of is, you know, an analogy of hey, I I ate a lot of donuts, I had a heart attack, I had to go to the hospital, you know, and and I'm sick, so I have to go somewhere for that. And the doctor's there and he's saying, Hey, stop eating donuts. You know, we saved you from this heart attack. We got to stop eating donuts, otherwise you're gonna have another one. I leave the hospital and I can keep eating donuts because it's an addiction of mine. I'm like, man, I really love these donuts. And then seeing somebody else eating donuts and me smacking out of their hands, going, Hey, what are you doing? Exactly. Don't do this. Yeah, it really is. I think that when we put it in religious terms, automatically people are on heightened awareness. They're going, oh, they're talking about God, they're talking about Jesus. Yeah. Here's this Christian. And if I put it bring it into a donut and uh an emergency room and a heart attack, people's like, yeah, I understand that. It's because, like you said, we are stupid humans who do stupid things. We all do it. And believing in a higher power doesn't make us feel like we are better than it's no, I have an answer. I'm trying to give it to somebody, even if I'm stupid and not following it myself. I'm just excited to share this with you. And it does start to feel elitist or that we are, you know, contradicting ourselves or something like that.

SPEAKER_01: 13:04

Yeah, completely. I mean, and I keep saying stupid humans only because I think it makes a bigger impact than saying the word sinner. I mean, we we are sinners, right? That that at the end of the day, we are sinners, and and Genesis is very clear about that. We are, you know, we were born perfect, we are spiritual beings, we have physical bodies, and those physical bodies have the opportunity to make a choice. And those choices that we make are often ego-driven, self-driven, you know, wanting to be liked by others driven, you name it, you know, anything that we do. And so we choose ourselves over God. And this is where that identity goes back, is like going back to the core identity of Genesis. I caught myself doing this this week in a totally different way, is like just going back and seeing myself reflected in the very first human that ever existed. Oh, there's just something I could know that maybe I don't need to know, but I'd like to know. Oh, I want to. That I mean, that's what it came down to. It came down to the I want that. That's that's what the the biting of the of the fruit was is the I want that. I'm curious, my curiosity is piquing me. I want this thing, I want to find out that thing, and I do it. How relatable is that to every single situation in my life? I I shouldn't have that thing to eat, but I but I want it. I somebody already told me it was bad, but I want it. Somebody told me I shouldn't say this thing, but it, but I, but I, and I know I shouldn't say it. It's gonna damage the relationship, but I want it. And it's amazing that in the first biblical statement of a human who does something, it's basically the singular thing that we're all guilty of today, every minute of every day. It's just it, it just I find it so fascinating. And again, I think, you know, this conversation took a sideways turn. I don't know if that's my fault, but you know, when we talk about identity, I think we should we should talk more about identity in in other ways. But the first thing to come to terms with in any identity is that I am flawed. Yeah, I am flawed. I'm not, I'm not bad. I'm not bad, I am not horribly broken, but I am flawed. And without God being subject to my own whims and and wills, it's not gonna go well for me. Again, look at what happened to Adam and Eve. It's not gonna go well for me if I un unless I do that. So it's it's just such an interesting topic to me. And then when we get to more identity stuff, it's later, it's like, oh, and you know, you guys so rightfully last week talked about the lies we tell ourselves, you know, when I wasn't here when I was sick. But, you know, one of the lies we tell ourselves is we're not sinners. We tell ourselves we're not, that we can fix our things, that we can want things and make things work out, that we can do good by ourselves. And and that's the first step to figuring out who you really are, is that you're not that.

SPEAKER_00: 15:34

I actually appreciate the sideware, the sideways conversation. I like it going this way because this ends up being uh a great conversation, I think that's needed. I think when it comes to sin, you know, we also get the wrong definition of the word where you hear the word sin and it has become this massive thought versus just missing the mark. Um, and and somebody can swallow that better and go, hey, I'm just missing the mark. And when you start talking about identity, yeah, if I feel like the word sin, man, my identity is linked with sin, it means I am I'm always doing the wrong thing. I'm always doing something that is offensive to God versus I'm just missing the mark. Um, and then when we go back to the original statement of what do we do in secret, if I'm feeling like I need to perform for people to show that I'm doing the right thing, it's because I've put such an emphasis on sin versus just going to somebody saying, Hey, I missed the mark. We're we're not perfect, I missed the mark, and I'm confident telling you that, knowing that I'll get the grace from it. Go ahead, Abby.

SPEAKER_01: 16:40

I thought you had something to say. Okay. So I mean, to to that same point, I mean, I think that there's there I wonder, I'm not gonna try and like psychologize everybody, psychologize everybody in the world in one statement. But I mean, generally speaking, I mean, I think one reason that people feel the need to, you know, do these big actions in front of others is because in some sense, even unconsciously, they know that they're not doing them in private. And so it's like, let me, let me, let me prove to other people, let me prove to myself that I'm good because when I'm in front of other people, I can do these good things. I can act in this good way, I can be my best self. And then, you know, in behind closed doors, you're like, oh wait, I keep not doing this thing. And and maybe the conversation turns here so we don't like beat the dead horse as people say, which is that the the the antidote to all of this, uh to much of this, is truly practicing that same self that you show to others when no one's around. When you mess up, uh show yourself the same grace you would show somebody else. When before you enter a problem, pray about that problem. Before you curse that person out, make sure that you pray to God and say, help me to see this situation clearly before I go and say whatever I'm about to go say. Before you, you know, partake in the thing that you don't want to be partaking in that makes you feel less Christian or less close to God, pray about it and ask for you know the strength, the willpower, the intention to stay away from those things or to, or to act in ways that are different from you, or ask for perspective and ask for discernment. And and it really is, and I'm I'm I'm not standing here saying I do this all the time and therefore I'm again, I'm not saying I'm better than anybody. I'm just saying there are some weeks where I am better than others. And in those weeks, those are the weeks that I am doing that, that I'm waking up in the morning and I'm praying and I'm reading the Bible and I've got something in my head. And when something comes in the middle of the day and it and it smacks me in the face and my reaction is jump, I don't jump as hard those days. I don't, I don't, I don't, you know, react as hard in those days. And if I were slightly smarter, I would do it every week, every day, and every minute. But I, you know, again, I'm a sinner and I have to become accustomed and and comfortable with the fact that I'm a sinner and I'm gonna have faults of thinking many, many, many times. And I'm gonna keep learning the same thing over and over.

SPEAKER_00: 19:10

You said if you were smarter, it's interesting because this comes from Proverbs, so this is wisdom. Proverbs 15, 3. The eyes of the Lord are on every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good. And when you start to think about us in secret and who we are, God is always there. And I think that some of the issue that happens is again, we are living for man and not all the time for God. So there are times where we go home and I'm like, man, I'm a great Christian on a Sunday, but now I'm done there. So I go back to being who I truly am. And God is saying here in wisdom, I'm there through the evil, through the good. I see all of it. So so who are you trying to hide this from? People or me?

SPEAKER_01: 20:34

Yeah. And don't forget, when you're trying to please man, part of pleasing man is pleasing yourself. Yeah. Right? Like that's it, I think that's an important part too, because there are people who care more about the outside world, right? There are people who really care what others think of them. I don't tend to be one of them, but I do tend to think very much about what what I'm thinking. I'm I am a very, I think I'm a very, I can be a very selfish person. I think I can be a very, you know, self-oriented person. And whether it's my own view of myself, whether it's what I want, whether it's what I feel like I need, whether it's what I am seeking and not getting, like any of those things, like those, I I think it's just I'm saying it out loud because I think that sometimes if if people out there are saying, well, I don't really care what other people think of me, ask yourself, are you thinking about what you think about yourself? Is this is it have you really turned this whole man thing inward and you've become the man that you're trying to please or the person that you're trying to please? And I think it's it's it's a valid question to ask at least.

SPEAKER_00: 21:31

Yeah, and is God you know, he's not impressed with our version of ourselves. He's impressed with the true identity of who we are. He loves the version of you that nobody else sees. And that's I think a big deal is we have to realize, you know, not to go quickly over that statement, but he loves the version nobody else sees. That version that we sit in our own head with, God is going, that's the version I love because that's the truth. That's the part of you that I want you to bring to me. I want you to bring me your weakness, not your performance. And, you know, this is something where he is even brilliant in the fact that, and this goes back to my training days. So the same coach who told me that I need to train on my own, when I would mess up, he would take me to the side. He wouldn't do it most of the time. He would take me to the side and tell me and not do it in front of somebody. And listen, as all of us are in charge of or leading other people, we've learned the same skills. Hey, listen, don't embarrass somebody in front of a group, take them to the side, talk about them on the side. And with God, you know, it's times of I feel empty, I feel tired. These are God's Nudges just kind of telling me on the side, hey, this this isn't who you are. You're being the fake version of you. Don't you feel that? And and I also love the fact that he corrects me in private. He's asking me to show him who I am in private, and he's correcting me in private. I love that about God.

SPEAKER_01: 22:58

Yeah. Yeah. I I agree. I agree. It's nice. It's nice. It's nice to be corrected in private. I'm actually sitting here thinking it's it, you know, one of the more interesting parts of this conversation is Are you guys familiar with the word sonder? Sonder is a word that has entered my vocabulary a few years ago, and I and I love the concept and I love the idea because it's kind of something I've always played with as like a thought experiment in the back of my head. Sonder is the idea that every single human on earth has exactly the same depth of experience that you do in life. You know, we tend to walk around and see other people and we see, you know, one side of them, and we have no idea that there's an iceberg below that of you know experience and feeling and emotion and backstories and broken families and broken histories and you know, sad nights and funny nights and good moments. Like the there, whatever the robustness and the richness of your of your story is, every other human being in the world has that. And I say that to say, like, I'm sitting here thinking, I was just sitting here looking at Javi thinking that you know, Javi to me has always been this really faithful guy who wakes up in the morning, does his devotionals, drinks his coffee with his wife, does all these, you know, beautiful, you know, things. And I've never known Javi not to have a smile on his face and being, and so there's a part of me too that has, if I can, if I can use a word for the sake of the word, has been jealous of Javi for his relationship with God. You know, I've I've often looked at Javi and said, like, wow, and and David too, for different, for totally different reasons. But I mean, like Javi to say, like, you you're even keeled and and all these things. But here's the thing, from the outside, right? And like it's very easy to look at other people too and go, like, oh, they have it all together and I don't. And, you know, if you're watching the video right now, you can know that Javi was shaking his head no the whole time of that. But it's it's really important for people to say and to realize that you don't see everybody's full life. And you should never compare yourself with other people's lives because you know, I I'm not saying that Javi's doing anything horrible behind closed doors, but I mean, you it it's it's not smart and God doesn't ask us to compare ourselves to other people because we just don't have the visibility to know what they're going through either, you know, and I think I think that's an important point. And I don't know, I don't again, I don't even know where that's going either, but it is an important thing. Like it's it's very easy, especially in in in dare I say tribal communities, right? Like you're we are in a tribe of of these people and a tribe of these people and a tribe of these people. And so look, it's it's very easy to look at your tribal members and say, oh, well, they all have it together, and I'm over here snapping at my family on a random Thursday night because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And again, it goes back to that identity of saying, I'm a sinner. Like I I'm not broken, I didn't fail tremendously. God's not going to discard me for that thing. It I'm not better or worse than Javi for doing that, and Javi's not any better or worse than me for not doing that. It's just that I am a sinner. I made a mistake. I need to be humble enough to go. I'd like to not make that mistake again by aligning myself more with God next time, instead of going, well, Javi would have never done that. David, David would have never done that. You know, and and that's that's that's that's a that's a devilish def, you know, defensive mechanism, too. And I think the devil loves that one. Devil loves going, well, look at all the other people in church who are smiling and laughing and having a great time, and look at how they're you know, how they're dealing with their families, and look at how they are with their you know loved ones, and look how they are when nobody's, you know, when you know again, it's that's one of those things that can get to you. It's like I must not be a good enough Christian, or maybe God doesn't really want me to be here if that's the way he's made me. Not at all. Take that out of your mind.

SPEAKER_02: 26:41

Talk about that for me, Javi. Take that out of your mind. I think when I look at you, Jason, I I really admire you and your life. I think the way to look at it is everyone's has a different road, right? Everyone has a different path. You have different responsibilities than I do. You have, I mean, we to sit here and break it down, you know, you have totally different responsibilities. You have different things that are the pressures that you feel with with your team and what you do for work and obviously your family, which, you know, I don't have any kids. So not to say that I'm able to follow God a little bit deeper than you do because you have kids. I'm just saying that you go, you go about your life differently than I do. But the the faith and grounding yourself the way you need to do it, you do it in your way, but as long as you're doing it. And that's how I see it with when people in their lives. For me, I I keep a smile on my face because I'm I'm just different. You know, for me, it's I not to say you don't love people, but I love people, you know, and I love to know people and I want to like you know invite that in. I also work for at a church. So for me, I am part of a church, so I want to keep that not image, but I want to keep I want to invite people in. So just different, different perspective on different roads. I think I everyone really admires your road and where you came about, you know. I admire your brains, you know, like and and your wisdom. So, but to say, to sit here and go, and I know you don't feel it that way, but to say jealous or or any kind of way, you know, I don't feel that way. I feel like, wow, look at that guy, man. That that's that's my friend, you know, like, and I want to root for you and I want to root for your family and to do the things, you know. Look at your son, I'm like, that's awesome. He's growing him, he's teaching him and growing him how to be uh a follower of Christ and uh he's a son of God, you know. Like it, I love that. So I say that to say everyone's going through different things, you know, and I go through my weakness as much as anyone else do. And I would hate to have a recorder over me being broadcast around the world when I when I walk into my weakness, you know. But God sees that, yeah. And what God is asking for us when we do is just ask for repentance, it's ask for forgiveness, it's ask to walk away from that and walk towards them. So that's all we try to do.

SPEAKER_00: 28:53

I'll I'll bring in a biblical. We both respect David. We both respect David too, though.

SPEAKER_01: 28:58

Here's the biblical side of things, and this is this is really David's the hardest working man in church business. I'll tell you that. The hardest working man in church business. I think at the end of the at the end of David's life when he's standing in front of the pearly gates, they're gonna be like, Well, you can go in after all the people that you helped, and it's gonna be a couple thousand years before you get to walk in.

SPEAKER_00: 29:18

With God's grace, that'd be amazing. I I that's great. You know, what you guys are saying, it reminds me of things in the Bible that you you talk about grass is always greener, and it goes right to yeah, right off the bat in the Bible, as soon as the the flood is done, we hear about the three patriarchs of the Jewish world, which is Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Abraham heard God, trusted God, and moved forward. Isaac inherited God from his father and then had to have his own relationship by trusting him not to kill him when he was on the altar. And then Jacob wrestled with God. And I think about those as three ways that people come to testimony. Some people go, Hey, I was just born in this life. I remember it from the time I was little. I've just always believed in God. Somebody goes, Hey, my parents brought me there. I'm inherited into this, but I've now accepted Christ myself. And other people struggle through it and they wrestle and they might wrestle forever through it. And I start to think about all the different stories and going, you know, I'm sure Moses at some point was like, Man, the grass is a lot greener over there. I wish I could have done Aaron's work because mine is really tough. But when I think about all the things that David went through, Moses couldn't have gone through that. If I think about what Moses went through, David couldn't have gone through that. God knew that. We go through our own stories. God made different pathways to him, different stories that we have for so many reasons. We could talk about free will and he doesn't want robots, he wants us to love freely and all that. But truly, I think that his wisdom is if I lived a life of Jason, if I looked at you and said, Man, I'm really envious of this, but I had to take on all of the things you've been through. That 90% iceberg that you're talking about underneath the water, I might go, whoa, whoa, I didn't realize this was attached to it. I don't really want that part. I just want this 10% that I'm looking at. And I think it's such a beautiful thing to really look at humanity and go, yes, people feel like the grass is always greener. But when you really think about it, when you really think about who made you and how he made you, you have to take a moment and go, if I truly trust God, I truly understand that he made me in the depth that I have that's equal to somebody else, but it's my story. And my story is gonna lead in a path that's very different than somebody else's. And I have to be thankful to God for that. That listen, I might be going through the things Moses went through, but I'm not going through the things that David went through, and I'm very grateful for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:48

Hey guys, Jason here. This conversation kept going a lot longer than we expected. So we're gonna go ahead and make it into a two part series, and we look forward to seeing you again next week where you can hear how it comes out. Thanks a lot for your time. Talk to you all soon.