SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. I will not cry. I don't need help. I can perform and I'm just fine. These are, you know, Javi, these are the covenants and the lies that we tell each other. We tell ourselves every day. It's, you know, somebody comes up to me and says, How are you doing? I go, I'm fine. I'm not going to cry because, you know, I'm a man and men don't cry. And I've heard people say, No, I don't need help. I got it. Even though they don't. Sometimes they don't have it. And what's funny is we have all of these laws in Leviticus that we complain about. We go, No, I don't want all these laws, but we actually make up all these laws for ourselves constantly. And that's kind of something I want to touch on today and jump in this conversation with you.

SPEAKER_00: 0:49

Yeah, that's I love that intro. You're right. I think that's that's something we sometimes for me at least at least subconsciously tell myself. And just to kind of overcome some of the struggles and obstacles that I have in my way, you know, and we everyone has different obstacles and they go about it differently. But I think that strength that we try to find within ourselves, we forget that we have a higher power that can help us even further to kind of combat some of these things. So I'm interested in jumping in with you. I obviously we're missing Jason, and we're just praying for Jason God, he's feeling sick, not feeling wealth today. And I'm praying for the for the family as well. They're all under the weather. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30

We hope we hope you feel better, Jason. But um, what what this topic reminds me of is Joseph, actually. And when you look at the story of Joseph and his brothers, we've done this story on this podcast before, and it's a great story, and it's the one that most people know this way. Joseph was, you know, he was the favorite son, and his brothers were jealous, and they sold him off to slavery, and he became a slave. And through his leadership skills and his poise and character, he grew to number two in Egypt. And during a famine, because he was so great at management, they had a surplus of food, and then his family had to come not knowing it was him. He was able to help. They were finally able to be reunited, and it's this wonderful story of how God uses something bad for good. And that's kind of the story that we all know and what we hear at church, and it's it's great and it's accurate, and we did the story on it here, and there's a lot of great things in it, and I love it. But there's a part of the story that I want to go in today, and this is who we all are as people, which is sometimes we hide things even if we think it's for the good. So here's the scenario again. Joseph is sold by his brothers, denied by them, rejected by them, sold by them. He's then in slavery. This is now 13 years of him being rejected by his family and living with that, being in slavery and living with that, trying to move his way up, but he wasn't doing that as a hey, I want to move my way up. He was just being himself and he's moving his way up, but he's still imprisoned. So this is now 13 years of anguish that he's in. And then his brothers come and they reunite, and then this is the part where it gets good. So this I'm gonna read this off because there's a lot of it. Genesis 42, 24, Genesis 43, 30, 45, 2, 45, 14 to 15, 46, 29, 50, 1, and 50 17. Those are all the verses that now Joseph is crying. Every one of those verses, he is just he's now reunited, he's feeling safe, and he releases all of this emotion. And I'm thinking about that from a perspective of if I'm holding in my emotion for 13 years and then letting it all out, I'm actually, I think, doing a disservice. Right. And and so that's part of this this law that I make with myself of I will be strong through this, I will not cry. And then you're holding it in, and what's happening is he has his tragic life followed by this now overwhelming sense of it's all gonna come and dump out at once. And to me, that's that's a sad thing, not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00: 4:28

That's what you're saying, like holding on to all the past pains and and everything he's gone through. I think uh yeah, I think Joseph's story is really, you know, incredible. And I think when we did the episode, for me, it was like, it's about Joseph, it's not about his brothers, for me at least, where I land, where I leaned on that one. But yeah, Joseph's story is amazing. He shows great obedience to God, right? Like God spoke to him, God told him to take, you know, where to move, how to how to navigate. Not only that, God gave him visions, which helped him to be second in command and all that stuff, you know. So he was very obedient. I think in that obedience, we could fall short in not being not surrendering to God, right? Not fully surrendering to God, meaning our full surrender, our feelings, our hurts, right? And and obviously the Bible doesn't go totally into the fact that, hey, you know, my brother tried to sell me off, what's going on, God? You know, this hurts me, right? And he didn't write this like poetic thing or whatever it is, but we could what you're trying to uh say is he held on to a lot of this pain and and and discomfort and and turmoil that he probably felt, obviously through his family, because he was crying it out so many times. He cried out, and I think I think there's a certain release that we need to understand that there's a certain uh peace, sorry, peace that we get from releasing pains, uh, speaking about it, speaking it out, calling God upon that, go, hey, help me through my weakness, help me through this, through this pain and surrender that all, we could find peace and just kind of release and be able to do better and do more through that.

SPEAKER_01: 6:05

But listen, God definitely, you said it, God wants a relationship, He doesn't want repetition. So if we're waking up every day and we're reading the Bible and we're going to church and all that stuff, we go, yeah, this is good, we know it. But if it becomes a check mark, you know, a checkbox and we're doing repetition, but we don't have the relationship, and I'm not saying that's what Joseph did. I think he he lived in a way where he was obedient to God, but I truly believe that he was he had made some sort of deal with himself that this is the way he was going to deal with the pain, was going to swallow it down. And I know this from a lot of relationships that I've worked with people through, where you have somebody who goes, Hey, I am keeping this from my spouse because I don't want to fight, I don't want to rock the boat. And then it builds up, it builds up, it builds up, and all these little things all of a sudden explode into a huge fight or you know, threatening of separation. And meanwhile, it was because they held in their emotions for so long, only because we're we're I want to be clear. This is from the first, the very first person who ever came. This was if you look at Adam, if you look at Adam and Eve, as soon as they do wrong, God says, Where are you? They're hiding. God's asking them, Where's your where's your head at? And they're like, I'm I'm gonna hide this. So it's it's human nature for us to make these covenants with ourselves of, I don't need help. I am not gonna cry, I'm not gonna tell somebody what's going on. But like I said in the beginning, I think it's a disservice for relational with God and also, like you just said, to have this peace that only comes from giving God your weakness, not just your obedience.

SPEAKER_00: 7:49

Yeah, no, I love that. And I it reminds me recently in my men's group, just telling the guys like this space, this safe space for us to meet and talk about what is God doing in our lives and you know, you know, and be able to express that even through the pain, even the pain that we're kind of going through, you need to express it to somebody, you know, and sometimes guys, men hold it in. And I think when you're saying this story to me, I'm it's just to me, it reminds me of men. Men just want to hold it in and go, No, it I could, I could overcome it, I could go through it, I could push it to the side and move forward, right? We could compartmentalize kind of thing, right? And I was telling the guys, you know, we need to find some kind of outlet, these these things that it's that we're struggling with, whether it be through counsel with with with another friend that's that's good counsel, right? Or like a group like we're in, you know, or and overall, uh obviously definitely, you know, giving it to God and praying and give it up to him and go, hey, you know, let me give up this weakness. Hey, I'm going through this, you know. And sometimes, and I want to say this, maybe, maybe, especially to our listeners, do you struggle with that? Do you struggle with, you know, we we're we're easy to pray for others. It's easy for us to pray for others, it's easy for us to pray for things that's going on and things that we want. But do are we praying to God and going, hey, I am struggling with this and I need help through this? Yeah, help with this, help me through that 100%.

SPEAKER_01: 9:18

And you know, I I I said before that this starts from the for the first humans, we're kind of made this way. The other thing is that we're we're taught this as well. And you know, you mentioned as a man, and you know, we know that we've heard this a lot of times before from you know, social media, from psychologists that men tend to try to act act more menly. This is the way we're raised. But when I look at the society as a whole, when I look at relationships, this is what we're taught. When we're first born, we are kids. Our parents are going to give us positive reinforcement when we clean our rooms, do our chores, do things right, eat all the vegetables. It's like, hey, you're doing so great. We get this positive feedback. What ends up happening is that's performative. If I perform, I'm getting a positive thing. And I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying this is what we're we're looking at. Then we go into school, and our next relationship is with a teacher. And the teacher is saying, if you do your homework, if you do your work, if you do your test, well, if you study, I'm going to like you more. You are now my favorite student, and all of a sudden it's perform-based. And now we're in a relationship with a spouse or even with your friends. And that's not how relationship works because you don't want to be with a wife or or a wife with a husband to go, you need to do this in order for me to be happy. Because now we're getting conflicted with the wait a minute, happiness comes from the relationship with God, not from me. Why do I have to perform? And and now you have these worlds colliding of what I've learned my whole life and how to react with people and relationships to how do I actually navigate this? And the only way to do this is not to hold it in, to have conversations, to say, hey, this is how I'm feeling. And is this something that I require somebody else to perform to make me feel better? Or is this a relationship with God that I am mistaken and and I need to get that right? I need to understand, you know, where my place is in this world with my spouse, with my friends, with myself.

SPEAKER_00: 11:18

Yeah, you know, I do good, I get a biscuit, bro. Like that's that's it. That's exactly like there's nothing, there's nothing better than that, right? I do good, I get a biscuit. You know, and I think that's it goes back to just being obedient. I mean, and and to me, it's I and I I think it's safe to say that's kind of like legalism, right? Just you know, I perform this, then I'm doing good. I am in his good grace, right? I am I am saved. Jesus talks about a parable or about a rich man, and he talks about this man and goes, Hey, I've done this, I've done that. I'm good, am I good? And he's like, Well, why don't you go sell your possessions and then you're good? If you want to be perfect, why don't you go do that? You know, and he's like, uh he walks away sad. Um, I I think we find that in Matthew 19, 20. He goes, he walks away sad. And Jesus is like, Well, you see, it's hard for him to to a rich man to kind of go through to kind of go through the the needle of a of a camel of something like that. The needle of an eye than for a rich man, yes. Yeah, that's what it is. Okay. That's what it is. Sorry, it's it's a weird saying, it's kind of funny, but it's probably like Jewish kind of tradition or something. But but yeah, I say that to say we we could act in duty and feel like we're doing right, but God is not requiring that. God is also requiring us to have us fully to give up our full self to him, even our weaknesses. But I feel like if we're not surrendering fully, then we're only giving half of ourselves to him. And I think that's not full surrendering just in acting. Obedience is good, but surrendering our weaknesses as well, it's it's full obedience.

SPEAKER_01: 12:58

Listen, John 21, 3, this is a story about Peter. After Peter denies Jesus, after Jesus is crucified, he goes back to fishing. And what it reminds me of is here's somebody who walked with Jesus for three years, who had all of the obedience, who loved Jesus, learned from him personally. And after he felt some sort of guilt, he went back to what he's used to doing. He didn't go and say, Hey, I'm gonna take these lessons that I learned from Jesus and I'm gonna go spread it. I'm going to, you know, continue on my learning path. I'm gonna do something else that Jesus started. No, he goes back to fishing. And I make jokes. I always say, I don't understand why he went back fishing. He's the world's worst fisherman. Jesus needed to find him fish and then he needed to multiply it for him. But literally, Peter did the only thing that he knew what to do for comfort, which is to go backwards. And I'm going, man, it's so symbolic for every one of us, where we are going through a struggle. And instead of going forward with God, we revert backwards to the way that we were before, to the pain, to the whatever it was that we we're lying in because it's comfortable. It's the the devil that we know, that's the saying. We go back to the devil that we know because going forward seems like it's going to be very hurtful. We have to process some emotions. And because we're not made that way, or because we've learned not to do that, however it is. Again, we're not giving God our full weakness. We're we're giving him performance, we're giving him a performance ritual. I know I'm supposed to do this in order for this to happen. It's almost proverbs. This is the probability. The probability is not if I do this, this will happen. It's if I do this, chances are better of this happening. So we figure, hey, I'm gonna go to this performative ritualism versus truly giving all of our weakness to God. And I think that that is where He wants us and where we can find the most peace. And not that it's easy. I don't wanna, I don't want somebody to listen to us and go, oh, he makes it sound like what's the big deal. No, it's very hard. We all have these things of going back to what's what we're used to, but what that's not what we're called to do.

SPEAKER_00: 15:52

Yeah, it's very subtle. Like what we're talking about is like subtleties, right? It's like this, the the little things that people don't realize, what are you doing when you're you know, when you're actually following God, if truly actually following God? You know, like rituals that we're talking about, legalism that maybe we're talking about, certain things like, well, I pray in the morning, I pray before I eat, you know, I I go to church every Sunday. That's good. Do that. I I I give what that's good. You're giving up just obedience, that's action. That's good. But are you surrendering your full heart? Are you really seeking God? Are you really trusting God even in your weakness? You're trusting God, like, hey, God could provide for my family or whatever. But are you trusting fully? You know, and that's what we're talking about, that small little trust. And I love what Paul talks about. Paul is is the is the guy on this, right? Like, Paul talks about the thorn on his side and and walking through it with that, you know, he talks about he out of all people is open about, hey, I am weak. What I what I want to do, I you know, I don't do, and and what I don't want to do, I do. You know, he talks about that at the whole do-do and things, Romans 7, where he's like back and forth with like, I do, but I don't want to do. And you know, but to back it up, he goes in 2 Corinthians 12, 9, I think is perfect in this. He goes, God's power is made perfect in weakness, right? And before that, he goes, His grace, he goes, God is talking to Paul saying, Hey, my grace is sufficient in you. Jesus is talking to this, like it's in red letters. I figured it's Jesus. Jesus is talking to go ahead, hey, my grace is sufficient in you. That's all you need. My grace is sufficient in you. So anything else that you're dealing with, you're okay. My grace, that's what you need to go about life, you know. And he goes, and he goes, His power is made perfect in my weakness. And then he goes off to saying, He delights in his weakness, in insults, in hardships, in persecution, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. And that's what he's saying. Like when he is weak, he is made strong in that. When he's able to face and be vulnerable, which is tough. That word is tough for men, especially for men. Like to for us to be vulnerable in our weakness, then we're made strong. I think what it's trying to say there is once we admit, when we we we admit to like we are weak, we're not sufficient, we're not good enough. You know, Jesus talks about apart from me, you cannot do anything, right? He talks about divine, like you're being being attached to the divine. Well, apart from me, you cannot do anything. And that is that total admitness, admitting to that I am vulnerable, I am weak. From there, you can overcome it and be strong. From there, you're able to like overcome things and go, Well, I just admit that I admit my my my insecurities. Now I can seek help in that. People can help me. God can show He continue to shine light on that and go, I'm gonna help you through that weakness to overcome it. And within that, you're not gonna get the glory. God is gonna get the glory because it's not in your strength, but it is 100%.

SPEAKER_01: 18:53

Listen, I I feel like, and we keep saying men because we're both men, so we we have that experience. I I feel like people use some of these things like Paul was talking about as bumper stickers. Like, yeah, I get it. I understand that God is is wants me in my weakness, and he meets me where I am, and I don't have to be perfect, and he's the only person. And I feel like they're all great bumper stickers, but then when we apply it to ourselves, we can't. We go, no, I need to this performance needs to happen, or I can't cry, or I can't show weakness, or you know, I have to be the man of the family, or you know, as the woman, I have to be the the the strong one with the kids, and I have to show something. There has to be, man, we're doing some sort of performance all the time and go, I love that God loves me through my weakness. I just don't plan on showing anybody, including God, my weakness. And instead of it becoming a bumper sticker, right? How do we, you know, now comes the all right, how do we how do we do this then? Because I know I know I'm guilty of it. I know that I at many times will not let my emotions out. And people have looked at me, and my wife and I have had this discussion of, you know, that I I don't have an you know, I have one emotion and that was it. And and I get that, but now it's how do we get past that? And there's a couple of things that that I kind of wrote down that I think would help. Um, but one, the very first one is to define it. We we have to define where our weakness is. If we don't know it, if again, if we're shielding it even from ourselves, there's no way to go forward. So the first one is I have to define it. Hey, God, I'm going to define it and we're going to talk about it. I'm going to say, I feel weak when this happens. And believe me, I know it. I can think right now at moments when I feel weak. And moments when I feel sad, and moments where I feel inadequate, and I know those moments, and I need to define it and bring it to God. I think that's the number one first thing to do.

SPEAKER_00: 20:49

Yeah. No, that's good. You're right. You have to like know what's what's going on. And I think the only way to do that is really looking within, right? And and really praying it out and really asking God, like, God, I feel type of way. I feel, you know, I feel hurt right now. I don't know why I feel this way. I feel depressed. Who knows what it is? How to really define it and ask God, like, what's what it is? What is it? You know, how to find it. That's a tough one. That's it. It's tough to like really look within and really strip things away and go, what's wrong with me? You know, I'll say that from personally, you know, when I look back of me and praying or look at my life, I'm always thinking about others. You know, that's just my personality. I'm always thinking about how can I help others. I'm always thinking about praying for others and thinking about like, oh, they just share that prayer. They're going through some stuff. Let me pray for you. Let me, you know, and never really looking within my own like insecurities, my own, you know, things that I'm going through, the thorn on my side, and really addressing that. So I love that you said that, David.

SPEAKER_01: 21:48

Listen, you just saying what you said reminds me of Abraham praying for Sodom and Gomorrah, telling, you know, trying to intercede and saying, hey, God, wait, wait a minute. Don't, you don't have to destroy everybody. Even though he's going through his own stuff in his life, he is focused on other people. Uh, and and that's what you're that's your expression right now. And again, I don't want anybody out there to hear that that's not a great way to be, because you wanting to pray for somebody else, you showing that connection with them, you showing that empathy for them is one of the most amazing, God like Jesus things we can do, period. So I love that. But then there are other things that I I don't want to lose us so much and make that again another ritual, another performance ritual of well, because I do this, I'm doing that so that way I don't have to look within. And and if you can do, if you're looking within and you're also praying for others, man, you're you're ahead of the game. Um, one of the things I looked at also, and this is something that anybody who's out there who's listening to, you know, modern therapists who hear the words, you know, oh, the trigger words and the this and then that. Um, one of the big things they all hear is, you know, you should join you should journal.

SPEAKER_00: 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:59

And everyone's heard it and goes, I don't understand journal. I don't want to journal. It's not something that I do. I don't want to write. And I think about David. And if you look at the Psalms, this is him journaling. And and I think that what we put is journaling as again, we remember the the movie of a teenage girl journaling in her book, and we're like, I'm not doing that. I'm going, you don't have to do that. But when you journal like David, when you're putting your psalms out there, when you're crying out to God or celebrating God, but when you're journaling, I just think a different level of emotion comes out of you. It's slower paced, you're thinking about it, you're being intentional with your words. I just think that journaling is really powerful for helping get your emotions out.

SPEAKER_00: 23:51

I love that. And I think you know, I never thought about it that way, but going back to what I was saying before with the men's group, it's another way of letting out, right? It's another way of getting out what is frustrating you. You know, if you feel like you can't speak to another, you know, about what's going on with you or things that's frustrating you, you know, or maybe even pray it out to God, that's another way of letting it out, which is journaling, right? No, you don't have to worry about anybody responding back to you, but you're letting it out. You're letting the brain kind of figure out what just happened and maybe find some kind of release and some kind of peace within that. I think I have.

SPEAKER_01: 24:25

No, I love that. I think it's it's highly important. And unfortunately, it's a lot, it's something that a lot of people don't do. And one of the reasons people don't do it is control. They want to control everything. And this is where, you know, when you look at anxiety, the reason for anxiety has to do with control. And I think people want to control their environment and what's happening. And if they have more to do with it, they are controlling it better. What they don't realize is if you release it, it's actually gonna be more peaceful. And you the the control, yeah, you will never have control over the world, what's going on, other people. You're just not gonna be able to control it. So when you're doing that, um, I would say try to release control, but replace it with awareness. So I'm not controlling my emotions, I'm not controlling the situation. I'm aware of it. I'm aware of my emotions, I'm aware of a situation. I think it's not give it up, because a lot of people are like, I that sounds easy. I'm not gonna be able to do that. Just, you know, somebody listen, the famous fights with husband and wife is you know, the wife's going crazy and the husband goes, just relax, calm down, and then she's gonna explode more. I'm not saying just stop controlling because it's that easy. Replace it though with awareness from what's going on inside your yourself. Why are you trying to control? What are you aware of? And then again, giving that it ultimately it's always giving God the emotion, not suppressing it down, not covering it up, giving it to God. And this I'm gonna ask you, and and and I'm gonna put you on the spot and we'll we'll kind of talk about it a little bit. But uh, when somebody says give it to God, to you personally, what does that mean if somebody says, Hey, I'm you know, I am feeling stressed, and somebody just goes, Well, give it to God.

SPEAKER_00: 26:10

The first thing I think about is surrender. Surrender is the word that is really complicated to understand and do to actually go through the action of surrendering it all, right? Because you know, God's given us abilities to go ahead and make things happen as well, you know, in our own right in that sense. Now, that could come out really wrong, and you could, you know, go about it different ways, right? But the full surrendering and going like going back to what you're saying before, control, right? So, like we have an ability to control. I have the ability to, you know, if I have to push you, if I see you, right? Like, I could do that if I need to. I'm gonna regret it, but I could do that. You know, I have that control. And I think that's where that's the finite, that's the like the small subtleties that we need to realize when we when we come to God. Like we have the can we have the control to do our own things, but you should come to God first. You know, I was telling my wife recently, like, like you want to make a decision, that's fine. Just God is asking you to just seek him first, like before you make the decision. Like, and within that seeking of him, right? Sit on it for a little bit, maybe pray on it, reading scripture, right, right, kind of ruminating on it a little before you're making a big decision. He might reveal something for you that instead of making the right, maybe he wants you to go left, you know. And it's that's the surrender that I'm talking about. You know, that's the surrender that we're talking about, and and that's what it is to me. When when giving up to God is that giving what matters to me most, even the small things, just calling upon him first and surrendering. I have a verse here that I wanted to actually mention before before when I mentioned before when I mentioned divine, that's actually John 15, 5, where Romans 7.18 talks about more the the human nature that we're sinful. We're our our our sinful nature can't we're flawed. And because we're flawed, we have a if we continue to lean on our own understanding, Proverbs 3.5, 6, like if we continue to lean on our own understanding instead of leaning on God, and you know, we're gonna make wrong decisions, we're not gonna make decisions that He wants us to make, He's not gonna let us go forward, and within that, knowing that we're able Romans 7.18, we're simple, we have sinful nature, we're flawed, we that's where the surrender comes in. So if we are able to put ourselves second and so and and realize that we're flawed and seeking his goodness, his understanding first, that's surrender right there. That's a surrender that he's asking us to do, going, hey, I need to seek you first because you're you're way wise, you're way wiser than I am, and I need your understanding. So sorry, I that I went on a little rant. Surrender is is is a big one. Yeah, yeah. Surrender is a big one, and I don't know if that made any sense for to me. It's it's that it's realizing that we're weak in our flesh and we need something higher to to overcome and make help us make better decisions, help us in our weakness.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

And surrender is the first step of No, I listen, I actually love that answer for for two things. One is you have to submit to God and go, I am safe with God. If you're not feeling safe with God, then then there's a different issue going on, and and you have to check your heart and what's going on and all that. But if you are safe with God and you're not giving it to Him, uh you you mentioned something about, you know, the small things. And I think that when we look at quote unquote curing ourselves, hey, I know that I hold all this in and I want to be better and all that, we're looking at the far future of I am cured and now I no longer hold anything in, and I'm fully in touch with my emotions and I, you know, all that stuff. And and God's not asking for that. He's asking for small changes, not massive. He doesn't need the end result of you. He needs you to start, take a step, include me in one thing, and then another, and then another. And I think sometimes as people, we get overwhelmed because we look at again, the grass is always greener. We look at somebody else, we go, I want that, I want to be that person, I want to get rid of my anxiety, depression, whatever it is. I want to get rid of it all. And what happens is you get rid of yeah, and you get rid of none of it because you're not moving the needle. And what what we're talking about, I think, which is really helpful, is start with one thing, give one thing to God. And and when I think of like giving to God, again, it's defining it, praying on it, talking to him about it, everything you mentioned. I think that starts giving it to God. And then more and more, because we're individuals, because we have different relationships with God, it's gonna have a slightly different definition for all of us. So for for somebody else, giving it to God might be, you know what? I am going to pray to God and I'm not gonna worry about this anything more, and I'm just gonna turn my back and that's it. And somebody else is gonna go, how are you able to do that? I that doesn't work for me. I'm like, you're absolutely right, because God made us differently. But unless we start to define it and take a little step towards God, a little bit of trust, a little bit of feeling like I am safe with him, we can grow from there. So don't take the huge leap, take the small little steps that that lead you right to Christ.

SPEAKER_00: 31:30

I no, I love it because you're you're you're speaking about the journey, right? And I think that's the difference between maybe somebody that just came into Christ and just kind of like learning, you know, learning what it is to kind of follow Christ and and and and you know, at first you kind of learn who is Jesus and what what does it mean to be the son, you know, like you're a son of God and stuff like that. Not the son of God, but a son of God. You're his children and welcome to the boundary.

SPEAKER_01: 31:59

And learning that.

SPEAKER_00: 31:59

And I think it takes time to really start giving that. You know, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna give my devotion to you, God, in the morning, and I'm gonna pray to you. Then in year two, I'm gonna give my marriage to you, God, and handle that. Hey God, I'm gonna give my children, you know, and then through year three, like you start start handing things over to him and seeking him first in your decision making, in your in your in your trust, and trusting him, you know, and in and help and everything and every aspect of your life. And then I think that's what it is, is a journey. And I hate hearing it. Please. For me, when I talk about journey and when I talk when I think about like going through a journey, it's a journey. You gotta enjoy the journey, man. Like to me, that's nails on a chalkboard. It's like it, it's like, ah, I just want to get there, you know. I just want to like experience it and go through it. And I think what I'm learning now is the journey is all part of it. The growth process, the maturity in Christ is all about the journey. It's giving that one piece at a time, it's giving that, you know, giving it up to God. And I love that you're saying that, David. I think it's minute, it's like small little things, it's subtleties, the difference between obedience and surrender and and and on all that. It's it's all within that. It's all part of it in that walk in trusting in God and what he has to do. I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 33:19

I mean, this is the this is a whole purpose, I think, of the free will that we're given by God. That love and free will that we're given is also the free will to love him and to give things to him. And I'm, you know, yeah, I know that there are people out there, there are listeners, and there are other people who, you know, might hear this or a clip of this that are hurting and they are suffering. And they are Joseph, and they've gone through 13 years, 17 years, 25 years of pain, and they keep swallowing it because that's what they were learned. That's what they were taught. That's something they go, Well, I have to do this because this is what we do. And and something simple is, you know, I I've gone up to people, I'm like, hey, how's your day going? They go, fine, and you can just see it in their eyes. And you go, I know you're not fine. I know you're not fine. And then there's a part of me that goes, you know, I want to be there for you. I'm a human, flawed as you said. We are flawed, sinful humans, and I want to be there for you. How much more does God want to be there for you, who's perfect and loves you? And I just go, just start to give that to him. So when you're not fine, give it to him.

SPEAKER_00: 34:29

Yeah, and I think there's there's ways of doing it, right? Like you, you know, I was what we were talking about the other day, I think, and one of the guys, like, hey, I go to church, you know, I just tell people I'm fine, maybe I'm not fine. You know, I think is what you're saying, like to like expose everything out because of that. And I think sometimes that happens, and we go, hey, this obviously something that's really critical in your life. Let's let's let's help you out, let's pray and let's do that. I think that you you have to fill that out. But overall, God is there for us, God loves us, and most of all, you know, we want to we want to be able to surrender. And I think once we start surrendering our life, we start not self-reliance, but relying on Him, we're able to see fruit, you know, like Jesus says in John 15:5, I am divine and you are the branches, and if you remain in me and I in you, I would you will bear much fruit. Apart from me, you will do nothing. And I think that's talking about fruit, that's talking about living a life of being a disciple and discipling others, and and I get that, but it's also within God wants to have the relationship and he wants you to seek him first. And I think you I can imagine you, David, as a father, you want your kids to come to you rather than come to someone, somebody else, and really for you to be able to help them out. Yeah, right? Maybe you you could say something right quick, David, about one thing to kind of get out of it. If I could say anything, is is that it's full surrender, uh obedient and trusting God. But are you really trusting in God if you're not surrendering? So doing those things together, it's really how God wants you to walk in life. Is anything you want to maybe sum up in everything we talk about?

SPEAKER_01: 36:08

God doesn't want your performance, He He wants He wants a relationship. That's it. He just He wants you, He wants your heart, not your performance. And He does not care about the performance side of you. He just cares about what's truly in your heart. So give it to Him. That's it's going to for both of your relationships, not just for you. That's not just gonna make you feel better. It's not just gonna make God feel better. It's relationship. It makes both of you feel better when you're able to be truthful and honest and even showing your weakness in your weakest moments. That's where God is gonna draw the closest to you.

SPEAKER_00: 36:39

Amen. Amen. Well, I want to thank you guys for listening to the Bondless Bible podcast. Of course, we're praying for Jason and the family to get better. We're looking forward to seeing him next week uh on the next episode. Um, hey, I want to say if you enjoyed this episode, please like, please write a comment. Uh, let us know what's on your mind. And of course, don't forget to follow us. Uh, it just helps for others just like yourself to discover the many layers of the Bible. Have a blessed day.