SPEAKER_02: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, today I'm really excited to be talking about the ultimate convert. This is somebody by the name of Ruth. And I just want to give some really cool background from my Jewish past. When you go to the temple and they they read and learn from the book of Ruth, they actually do this called a holiday called Shavuot. And Shavuot is a moment when if you look at the timeline, this is where Moses got the Ten Commandments. This is where they talk about Ruth because of her covenant relationship with God. But if you fast forward to the New Testament, this also happens to be the holiday of Pentecost that happened at the same time. So this is where the Gentiles started accepting Christ. And this is where a Gentile in Ruth uh accepts the covenant responsibility and relationship with God. And it all happens at the same time. And I'm really excited about talking about Ruth. Um, she's just one of those stories that uh comes from the Bible that some people get wrong or they they gloss over really quickly. And for me, um, I am I'm I'm a Ruth fan, uh Ruth and Boaz. I just love it. Um this is somebody, just to give a quick background. Uh, she's she's a Moabite. Uh a Moabite were enemies of Israel. These were the descendants of Lot. Uh they come from Lot's incest and chaos relationship with his oldest daughter, uh, who then leads into Moab, is their their child, and then the Moabites come from them. And I mean, Balaam was somebody that they actually hired to curse the Israelites. They were constantly in fighting and battles with them. So this isn't just somebody who Israel doesn't like, these are enemies of them. And and we get to kind of come into from the communities themselves to individuals from each tribe getting to learn about how they interact with each other. So I'm really excited about this story today.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06

Yeah, this is a crazy it's a it's a really cool story. And for anybody who hasn't read Ruth, it's a pretty short, it's one of the shorter books of the Bible. In fact, I mean, I think it's four four books of the Bible. If you listen to it, I've been listening to a uh lately. What's the app that I've been listening to? It's uh give me a sec, Bible.is. It's got like a uh, it's a good listen, but it's also kind of like acted out and and it's a quick listen. It's a great listen. So I'd suggest anybody listen to it. Um, do we want to give a quick overview of it for anybody who hasn't, real quick, before we get into like the nuts and bolts of it all?

SPEAKER_02: 2:37

Sure. So you have uh Naomi, who is uh, you know, Ruth's mother-in-law. Uh, they move away from Bethlehem because of famine, and they go to Moab, and they um they her husband and and sons, um, Naomi's husbands and sons are killed. And now she is telling her other two daughters to leave her. She knows that she is destined for poverty. Uh, the with the Jewish culture, just being a woman with no sons and and no husband is not a great position to be in, and she knows it. So she tries to send them away. And her sister-in-law, her daughter-in-laws.

SPEAKER_01: 3:18

Yeah, her daughter-in-law. And she tries to send them away.

SPEAKER_02: 3:20

Yeah, and Ruth says, No, I'm I'm gonna stay with you, and and we'll go into the terminology she uses later, but she stays with her.

SPEAKER_01: 3:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:27

Um, and the other one says, peace out.

SPEAKER_01: 3:29

Thanks. I'm gonna go find another husband and get my life back on track. But Ruth is Ruth is faithful, right? Like, we'll get to that later. I mean, she's she's ultra faithful and she says, When you where you die, I die. Where I'm I'm with you till the end.

SPEAKER_00: 3:42

And that that kind of loyalty and she's ruthless and um and wanted to stay with Naomi and not letting her go. And she did. She said, Your God is my well played.

SPEAKER_01: 3:53

I love that. So, so anyway, so she uh yeah, so then they you know they go off to to live their lives and uh they're trying to figure out how to make ends meet, essentially. And ultimately, Ruth uh meets by kind of strange circumstances who somebody who ends up being a family member, right? Or uh like a distant family member?

SPEAKER_02: 4:16

A distant family member of Naomi.

SPEAKER_01: 4:18

Yeah, uh of Naomi. Of Naomi, right? A distant family member of uh Naomi named Boaz, who decides that he takes a liking to her and treats her well. Um and then it ultimately I don't want to spoil the whole story for you because it's a great story, but ultimately it resolves in um Boaz and Ruth getting married and becoming the parents to Jesse, who is the father of the parents of Obed, who then had Jesse, who then David. Obed, sorry, my bad. Yep. My my bad, Obed. Yeah, my bad, Obed. So it's Obed, then Jesse, then David, right? Correct.

SPEAKER_02: 4:48

Um, and and kind of going into because you guys pause for a second at a really great moment, which is um where Ruth says, Your people will be my people, your God shall be my God. Um what people look at when they read it first is hey, this is a really beautiful poetic language. Uh, but you don't realize again, in Jewish tradition, this is covenant language. This is uh when somebody converts to Judaism, that's the language, that's the words they use. So she is actually Yeah, so she's she's converting with her words, not just poetry. It's her actually showing, hey, I'm converting to uh to be an Israelite to follow Yahweh. So it's it's really more than just poetic, beautiful language. Uh, it's her converting uh publicly, which is also beautiful.

SPEAKER_00: 5:35

That was awesome. I would think she already would maybe took on the culture already being married to her sons of Naomi sons. Um, so maybe just a maybe just repeating it back to her and letting her know, like, hey, no, I said these words early on, and I'm gonna go with you, Naomi. I am yours.

SPEAKER_02: 5:52

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't it doesn't indicate when way or another, maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Um, but definitely at this moment, right, she has chosen to and what's really beautiful about this is she is actually um she is showing herself as a lore of love from the Torah without being an Israelite. And a lot of a lot of Israelites will look at this, you have to have a certain kind of covenant love, and she's showing that. And if you look at again, Ruth 116, that's where you say, Your people is my people, your God shall be my God. Um, she is what what she's doing is she's following the law of where God wants somebody to be in relationship with him, which is loving his people, loving him. Um, hear me, O Israel, love me with all of your heart, all of your soul. And and whether or not she loved her husband first, now she loves God and she's confessing that, um, and staying in a position where, like I, you know, when I mentioned poverty, you have to understand that this was a security, a poverty issue. This is um, this is a a woman who was in Moab as a widow who was an Israelite, who had to move, she had to leave, uh, but she was in a very precarious position, and and it was very dangerous for Ruth to stay there. So uh for her to say I'm staying, uh it does show the I I love the well-played ruthless. It does show her ruthless nature.

SPEAKER_00: 7:24

Yeah. But you you're saying that she didn't stay there, but she went with Naomi to back to the correct point, like to go back into the as a Moabite woman.

SPEAKER_01: 7:33

As a Moabite woman. So you're going to go back as a widow. She's going back as being connected to another widow who's old and probably too old to be married. So she's basically walking into a poverty trap and a you know, uh, a second-class citizen, if not third class citizen class, in this, you know, in this time period. She really is committing to something pretty harsh, but she's doing it because she wants Ruth to not I mean she wants Naomi not to be alone. What I find really interesting though is that she makes a choice. And I think it's so interesting that the story to your point, Javi, maybe she did commit to her husband's religion previously, right? Maybe she did. I don't think that was the necessary custom at the time. I think you could have two religions at the time, but either way, it doesn't really matter because what the uh it's interesting, but it doesn't matter necessarily at the end of the story because the story gives you two sons with two wives, and they choose differently. The choice there is the is the key factor, right? One one chooses self because it let's break it, let's take two steps away from the from the literal story and and lean into the emotional part of the story. One of them chose herself and her better the betterment of her future, or at least the the hope that she herself could make things better. The other one chose a widow who had nothing because she wanted to sacrifice herself in order to by the way, she was doing it to take care of Naomi. That's why she did it. She did it to take care of Naomi. She said, Naomi, you can't go bring all of this wheat from the field. You can't do that. You don't have the strength in your back and your body to do that, but I'm young and I can do that, or young enough to do that, right? Which is what we see, right? I think in like Ruth 2, if I'm not mistaken, is like she's out there in the fields, she's she's picking up the uh I forgot there's gleaning for it, but she's picking up gleaning. She's gleaning, which is for anybody who doesn't know what gleaning is, do you want to explain gleaning as well?

SPEAKER_02: 9:32

Well, you don't get before we jump into that, just because you hit on something that later on is gonna tie in beautifully with something else. And and and you're talking about a choice. They have two two people here, um, both had a choice, right? And and Ruth chose to stay with Naomi, um, which is it's such a beautiful act of love um and commitment and all of that. But later on, we're gonna see uh another choice that I want to point out. I'm not gonna ruin it now, but I'm just I wanna I want to I want to have everyone point to that because what you just said, sure, we're gonna see later as well. And it's and it's uh uh amazing. Uh gleaning, actually, if you go into Leviticus 19, 9, 10, uh, this is where again, God wants all of us to take care of all of his people. That's what we're called to do. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 10:23

And part and for everyone to be provided for as well. Sorry, I want to throw that back to the point. 100% He not only wants people to provide, but he wants them to be provided for. And he part of the way he's doing that is by creating this rule of gleaning so that people are accounted for. And no, you're great.

SPEAKER_02: 10:36

And then and these these reapers would go to the farm and they would cut the wheat down, and you would have wheat particles, and wheat itself would fall onto the ground, and on the outskirts of your property, of your farm, on the edges of it, whatever falls is meant to go to people that are in need. They can come, they can collect this the these this wheat, turn it into flour, and make food from it. So this is what was built into the law to help others. And Ruth has to do this. She she has no choice. They have no husband, they have no father, they have no man here. Um, but but what's even more impressive is when you think about a Moabite woman who the Israelites dislike, and you have a group of Israelite reapers with weapons in their hands uh reaping a field, yeah, they they are doing it in a way where the man, the the I forget the word for it, but the the moment must have been so thick in there. The the feeling of at any moment they can attack me, and I but I need the food. Um it's such a a moment of what's gonna happen, and then Boaz happens. And this is Boaz's field.

SPEAKER_01: 12:37

Well, and this is also where they make it very clear that it's a dangerous situation for Ruth because he comes and says, Hey, don't harm her, don't mess with her, don't it we we can imply from the context that we already know that she's in danger, but then that that part of the story makes it really, really clear. Like she is, he says, Don't harm her, don't mess with her, don't you know, let her have her space. I think it even says like let her literally let her have her space so that she can do her gleaning in peace and have what she needs. So, I mean, the story it as far as stories are concerned, it sets itself up so well from the beginning, it just clearly shows what kind of a sacrifice this was for Ruth, what kind of a heart she had for helping, what kind of a heart she had for supporting and sacrificing herself for the betterment of others. And like, even before we get to the rest of the story, I already love it right there. I mean, it's she's already created such a great framework for how one should live a sacrificial life. Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 13:33

And and you have it's a Moabite woman again doing this. Um, and then the response, which is beautiful, is the Israelite, again, their enemy, uh, in Boaz, does give her protection by saying, Don't touch her. Um, and then he goes further, he says, not only don't touch her, but drop more on purpose for her.

SPEAKER_01: 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 13:55

Um, and and listen, there are people who feel like this goes into uh romantic favor, uh, but it doesn't actually say that anywhere that there's romance here. It's literally him being a quote unquote good Jewish person, a good Israelite. I'm gonna follow Levitical law and I'm gonna go above and beyond what I'm required to do because he also has a love and faith in God, and he's doing Levitical law uh times two. And I think it's such a beautiful response where I said communities might not have liked each other very much. Individuals now um are doing things above and beyond what they're required to do in such a beautiful fashion. They are living out the Torah uh and love, and and it's compared to a word called chesed, um, which I've mentioned before, but chesed is this it's this covenantal love. It's a love based on uh covenant, not emotional love. So it is protection and security and knowing that just pure trust for somebody and pure non-emotional love, knowing that somebody always has you, and this is it.

SPEAKER_01: 15:08

I'm not gonna lie, I I read this story from the beginning and never caught that once. I I just always thought he was a little sweet on Ruth. And uh and Javi, I can do it too. He wanted her to be his baby Ruth. Uh so that's good. No, look, I I I read the story the whole time as if he was, you know, sweet on her, as if he had, you know, some some emotional attraction to her, you know, and something like that. And I think it's interesting when you add that other layer, it does add a whole nother as we as we like to know that the Bible is this and that and that, right? It's like this this just adds a whole nother layer of meaning. It's it wasn't about him being uh you know attracted to her as a woman. It was about him doing his achieving his responsibility, satisfying his responsibility and above that God has given him to do this, and that created a bond. That created another another type of connection. And so, you know, kind of spoiler alert, it goes down to something, you know, it's when you follow through with your faithfulness, you are rewarded even as the giver, not the taker. I man, I already had two stories in my head. Interesting of there's a story about Naomi, there's a story about Ruth, and I never thought there's a story about Boaz. The story of Boaz is a is a sorry, I'm I'm probably jumping 15 minutes ahead, but I mean the story the story about Boaz is when you are committed to your faith, right? When you are when you are faithful and loyal to your faith, look what he was rewarded with. He was rewarded with a wife. He was what he was rewarded with a being part of the line of Jesus, right? I mean, I didn't realize there was third story in there.

SPEAKER_00: 16:50

Yeah. Yeah, I think I think it still goes back to what David was saying. I think you're you're you jump ahead a little bit, Jason, but like you're talking about the covenant law, the love of the covenant law, right? I think you were saying, David, and that jumps into being the whole uh Kingsman Redeemer, right? And that's part of the covenant law as well, that that he's able to be redeemed, but she's able to be redeemed. It depends how you look at it, uh, who's being redeemed, who's the redeemer in the in that sense, um, that goes into it. I'm not sure you're gonna go into the remote.

SPEAKER_02: 17:17

Yeah, I think we definitely will. So before we get right into that part, which which is coming up very soon, um, something really odd happens where people, again, they they go into the romantic side of things, which is uh Naomi is telling Ruth, hey, you know, after a long gleaning period, what they did is typically, you know, when they had the big harvest, they would harvest all day into the night, and they would sleep out under the stars um to protect you know, a lot of people go, Oh, they're tired. Right. This was to protect what they've just reaped. Um, and and they would sleep out there so they can secure it. And Naomi is like, hey, when Boaz is asleep, you know, and everyone's looking, going, Yes, what's going on here? What's gonna happen? Yeah, and with her pulling up um uh a part of his robe over his feet, again, everybody goes into the graphic, hey, this is fifty shades of gray going on, my bar brain goes to that. Yeah, what you don't realize is that is literally the Jewish version of asking somebody for protection. So when when God says later that he pulls up his robe and covers Israel with it, um, it is that same language. It is now I'm asking him for protection and security. Yeah. And and it is again, this is not going into romance and hey, all this is happening because they fell in love, which they might have been. Um, but this is I am following the strict rules and laws of the Lord, and and what he has set out, and what, like you said, Jason, what he set out, if you follow it, turns into this amazing blessing of yeah, I mean, of of she gets the the redeemer, she gets the goal, she gets the protection. Um, but that's what she is asking for at this moment is not, hey, you're you're looking good, stud. It's hey, I'm pulling this up because I'm asking you if you'll be my security.

SPEAKER_01: 19:15

Yeah. Well, he gets the goyle too, doesn't he? I mean, that's the so sorry, that was too easy. He eventually does. I mean, he eventually does. But look, the other thing is too, I think it's it's it's interesting because we live in a modern society where love is a thing, right? Where romantic love and you know, one of the things I've studied over the years is that's that wasn't even a concept in the world that you could love the person you wanted to love and then marry that person and be with that person. That wasn't a thing until like the 1100s. Like that was like the uh you know, Celtic night, nights of the round table time is the time that you started getting those things. Like those things didn't exist back then. So we in today's society get caught up on this like, I must love this person, I must have this high feeling for this person, I must have this high this high romantic feeling for this person in order to be in love. And that this is another good story to remind us that that is not what love is. That is a that is a that is a bonus on top. It is a God-given blessing that we get if we're lucky to get that. But the reality is that's not what love is. Love is two people identifying each other as people who have common goals, or you know, you have what I need, I have what you need, and we can together put them together and have something better together type thing. And and being able to be faithful to that love, to be able to be faithful to that care of one another and to the relationship itself for the betterment of other things, which again, look, the betterment of what they bring to the table is the father of the father of Jesus. So the or the sorry, the father of the father. Of David, who will ultimately be in the line of Jesus. So I don't know. I just I again one more thing you guys are throwing out at me today. I just hadn't thought about that. Like I I was so busy seeing this as a love story that I hadn't stopped to realize that this is this is uh you know how long was this before Jesus actually? I don't know, 800 years. Yeah, yeah, this was 14 generations or so. This is this is 800. It's quite a quite a lot of generations. Yep. But I mean, so you're talking you're talking 3,000-ish years ago, and you know that that wasn't that love, love in the way that we process it isn't the same. Also, just a tiny side note, it's like it's a reminder that we have to read the Bible in context, hermeneutically. We shouldn't be reading it in modern context all the time because you will miss stuff, and I flat out miss this.

SPEAKER_00: 21:25

Yeah, no, 100%. I was gonna say, I think I I didn't see that that that way. I think because what I read was for me when I was reading it, Boaz is an older gentleman. I definitely, he was definitely older. He was kind of like not really approaching her like that, right? She's the one that kind of was in his way and was there, and she wasn't really seeking him romantically, where more Naomi was kind of pushing it. And Boaz just kind of like, even when he talks about the whole Kingsman stuff that David will talk about in a second, I guess. The whole Kingsman Redeemer, I feel like Boaz was like, hey, if somebody else was to take you, he's actually up next in line. He'll take you, he'll, you know, you're you're good either way. If not, I'll take you. So if I felt like if now modern day, if I really wanted to be with you, I will leave everything behind and and go after you, where he wasn't, right? He wasn't like chasing after her, going, No, you're mine, and I I want to be with you. Um, it just happens to be, it just happened to God just made it that way.

SPEAKER_01: 22:22

But again, remember remember in our look, in our modern times, we are so driven by the self that you're right. We would say, I'm leaving everything behind, I'm eschewing all traditions. You got a young one, and I'm and I'm going, and I got a young one, I'm going after this. Like they are, they're it's the Boaz could have been ruthless. Literal pun intended, pun intended, not pun intended, all those. Like, yeah, he he could have done all those things, but he didn't. Like, it's a reminder today that that is just not what we should be seeking. Boaz got what he was deserved because he deserved it, because he earned it in the right way. He didn't, you know, throw away tradition, he didn't throw away being cooth or following the legality of things, and he didn't, you know, rush after her. When we were younger, did any of us make the mistake of rushing after something we shouldn't have rushed after? And then we had to pay that price? Like the the the beauty of his older age and maturity was he knew to let things unfold appropriately, and if they were meant to be, they were meant to be. And and he and he does that. So he's a great Boaz turns into a into a great example of how love can be strong and satisfying and fulfilling without having to be romantic necessarily.

SPEAKER_02: 23:38

Um, and and it actually leads perfectly into the Kinsman Redeemer, the the Goel. And and you know, we mentioned that he might have been romantically interested in her, he might not have been romantically interested in her, and it might have been that he goes, Okay, I'm gonna pass it on to somebody else just in case because I'm not really into her. Or even more beautiful is I am really attracted to her as well. I do love her totally, and I'm still gonna follow the law of the land, which at that time, the Goel, the Kingsman Redeemer, went to the next of kin. And they're right again, according to their law, not according to tradition. Yeah, their law said that. So even it's even more beautiful to think like, hey, all these situations happen. I fell in love with her, I want to be with her, but I need to wait and see if somebody else uh claims her first. So he went out into the middle of the square, so to say, and he said, This is this is what is, this is who she is, this is who where she comes from, and there is somebody, and he knows who it is, who is a closer kin to you. And and Jason, this is where I'm gonna pop back to the decision you said in the beginning, where you have the one daughter-in-law who says no, the one daughter-in-law who says yes. You now have two kingsmen redeemers, and he offers it to the one and he says, Hey, this is her land because as a kinsman redeemer, you get the land back, you're reclaiming the land as a man's. So he's going, the kins redeemer at this point. The first one is going, Yes, I want it. And he goes, and you also get the Moabite as your wife. And he's like, No, I like my own inheritance better, and I'm gonna choose that. So you now have again the choice, two different choices. One who can be a redeemer who doesn't care about the the property, but about redeeming the person and seeing their heart, and you have the you know, the other person who just denied it says, No, I'm I care about my stuff and I don't want to be with the Moabite woman. Um, it it goes right back to the choice that you you alluded to in the beginning, and here it goes again. It starts off with it and it ends with it with this choice, and I think that's on purpose for us to learn from.

SPEAKER_01: 25:48

I I definitely think it's on purpose. I mean, there's there's two people set up to be choice makers in the beginning and two people set up to be choice makers in the end. Um, so it's it's it's definitely intentional one way or the other. I think you know the interesting thing about the that section too is it made me think that I'm pretty sure that Boaz, if I'm reading it correctly, Boaz was the one who initiated the conversation at all about kinsman redeemers. So it kind of shows that he did want it. Like what you know, it does to your point, you know, the maybe he did was was romantically interested in her. It shows it shows that. I mean, it shows it there's there's an indication that he may have been by saying, had he not really cared, he would have been like, Yeah, well, you deal with your own stuff. Like you, you you want a kinsman redeemer, go go tell that guy over there. And then Ruth would have had to, or you know, uh Naomi would have had to go ask for it, but instead he decided to do it. I mean, he Boaz decided to call it out. So he was initiating the conversation, which is I think that's not insignificant.

SPEAKER_02: 26:44

No, and and he's initiating it before it was rejected by the other kinsmen. So he's he's showing his heart. I want you, but I have to follow the law, and and let me see if you know, and uh again, it's this when when you are following God's way in the beginning, she followed God's way and and led her to Boaz. Boaz followed God's way and led him right back to Ruth. And and like as you pointed out, the two of them together then led to David, um, who listen, um a king should not come from an impure line. This would have been scandal on its own. Yeah, and I also think that's on purpose that David came in that fashion as well.

SPEAKER_01: 27:27

Yeah, go ahead, have you had some detective?

SPEAKER_00: 27:29

Definitely redeemed. No, I'm gonna say if anyone's wondering, the kingsman redeemer, it's a Levitical law, it's found in Leviticus 25, I think 47 to 49, which kind of talks about this, and you have to be a relative to actually go about this, which is a kinsman, um, uh redeemer, which is I think is a beautiful thing. I think this whole story goes back when it's is in the name, right? Kingsman Redeemer. I think this whole thing is about redemption, right? This whole story of Ruth and being a Moabite, being a Gentile, being a cast out, hated bunch of Israelites still could be redeemed through a lineage, uh, a kingsman, a kingsman lineage through David and going into Jesus Christ. Um, I think it's a beautiful story. At first reading it, yes, I did gloss over it, gloss over it for sure. Ruth, um, I didn't understand a lot of it, but as I continue to dive deeper, as we are right now, um, you see the beauty behind it, and I think you guys are really pointing out some beautiful part of it.

SPEAKER_01: 28:29

I I mean, I think we've gotten to the point now with the Kinsman Redeemer that we see that there is a there's a redemption, right? There is a this stuff has been lost by you, but I will redeem it. The entire Bible is about failure and redemption. It's about, you know, uh trying to be good enough, not being good enough, being red being redeemed by that, you know, and and this is just one of the stories in the old testament that means look at look how many of these stories point straight to Jesus. You know, David, you said a million times the whole Old Testament exists to point to Jesus. Like it was, it's not that's what it's for, to point to Jesus. And this is one of those. I mean, this is in this case, it's it's interesting because Naomi loses everything and yet is ultimately redeemed by those around her, by the community around her, by her own kinsmen, and she is redeemed. And she's not really talked about at the end of the story, but ultimately she's got all of her stuff back, and she's got her, and now she has a new, you know, family, and they move on and so forth and so on. You have Ruth on the other hand, who literally left home. She kind of pulled an Abraham, like she kind of, you know, left home, had to change who she was, had to become somebody else, had to be a part of something that she didn't really know to be a part of. Remember, Naomi had to tell her how to do that. She didn't do it by herself. Ruth didn't Ruth didn't figure this all out by herself, which by the way, it just made me think Esther didn't figure it out by herself either. She needed her uh, you know, her uncle as well. So there's there's this story of like there's Mordecai, there's a story, good one. So there's a story of in all of this of needing that community, needing other people to help drive you a bit to to to to your redemption, to your own, to your own repentance, your own change, your own, I don't know, transformation, in order to, in order that you can accept, because that's what you do, you don't you you don't earn it, but you accept that Jesus is your savior. You accept the that God is is the one you should be following, and so forth and so on. And this story's right there. I mean, again, it's told in a literal, almost love story, legalistic type way. But when you dig into what it's actually saying, it's a it's yet another arrow pointing, going ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, to to the story again.

SPEAKER_02: 30:41

Which it's it's a really interesting fact. She said yes, you know, it's a really crazy interesting fact. But Ruth, uh, the book of Ruth, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, there's no conspiracy behind it. This is just what is. It points so heavily to Jesus. It also happens to be in ancient documents, in ancient uh Israeli documents of the Torah. This book in some of those documents never made it in. This one book of Ruth is one of the ones that doesn't exist in uh many of the ancient scrolls. Um, but when you start to find some of the older ones, it did exist. And and going forward, like I said, they they actually celebrate this doing during Shavuat, and and this is something that they believe heavily uh it should belong in the Torah. Uh, but it yeah, originally, if you look at the ancient documents, it points so heavily to Jesus and how he redeems. Um, but it is a book that was uh argued about and tried to be removed and ended up uh losing the argument, but yeah, and ended up staying in there. But there were uh Rabinam who argued that it should not exist in there. Uh and it's just really cool. Uh and again, not not conspiracy, not because it points to Jesus, um other reasons, but it's really interesting that this points so heavily, and you know, kind of what what people say when there's smoke, there's fire. Like when somebody's trying to, no, no, don't look here, don't look here, and all of a sudden it's well because, you know, Javi, you you nailed you nailed it where you started talking about all the things that Ruth is, and that is exactly what Jesus that I mean the the redemption part is exactly what matches up with him. It's both Boaz and Ruth, both of their uh characteristics is Jesus. It's I am hated, the Israelites have an issue with me. I am, you know, trying to do the right thing here. I'm trying to follow God, not man. I mean, just on and on and on, and you start to see Jesus all through it. And I just, like I said, it it this is one of those stories that I love. I love to talk about it. I don't think it's talked about enough. I don't think people know enough about it. But once you really get into it, uh it it has to me, this story is exactly what Torah love, Jason. You mentioned it, you know, not emotional love that we know today. This is that covenantal. If I follow the law and I love you in that way, it's gonna be way more satisfying and fulfilling. And and that is going to turn into King David and ultimately Jesus. I'm like, man, that I don't think anybody else wouldn't want that kind of love.

SPEAKER_01: 33:22

Well, that same covenantal love you're talking about, too, is also called agape, you know, as well, right? And agape is not the love of romantic love, it is the doing something for the benefit of others, caring enough about others that you do something for their benefit, even if it doesn't benefit you. And so that's that's a lot of what this story has in it as well. Again, another pointing towards Jesus. But you know, it's funny, as as you were right as we were kind of like starting to get closer towards the end, I started thinking there was one note about Naomi in the beginning. And Naomi says, uh Naomi means sweetness, I think is what they said. Naomi means sweetness. And she said, You should no longer call me sweetness because God has taken everything from me, and and now, you know, I am bitter or something like that. And so names kind of came to me, and I was thinking about, you know, another thing that along this whole line of story, and I'm gonna do two things at once here because I'm gonna jump forward. So I I really love the fact that she's look, she's sad about what happened. She's upset with God, she's a little frustrated with God because God took everything from her, and she says so. She says, You have made me bitter. Uh, you've taken everything from me. Why did you do this, God? He's frustrated, right? Um, and I and I thought that was interesting because in that whole metaphor or that whole allegory that we're talking that sits on top of this story, it's a journey. Like the the bad thing had to happen to Naomi for the good stuff to happen to Naomi. Kind of the job thing that we've talked about, right? Like they had, and she didn't see it at the time. And she, I won't say she cursed God, but she was definitely frustrated with God or upset with God. But ultimately, again, she was also faithful to the law. She was faithful to those things, and she ended up getting it. Sorry, this is where I jump forward a whole jump. So as I was looking at the names of things, I I jumped to the very end of Ruth, and as always, the Amp Bible offers this level that I didn't expect. The baby that was born to Ruth and Boaz is named Obed. Do you know what Obed means? It means worshiper. So we just talked about this being like the Christ metaphor and the the observation of you are not a Christian, you uh you you go through some struggles, you one person leaves their faith, one person stays in their faith, but they both are ultimately redeemed by the redeemer. And then what do they do after? They are followed by the worshiper, they're followed by the Obed, who is the worshiper. And I so deeply want to learn Old Testament, uh Old Testament ancient Hebrew, because just the names alone offer so many clues into what a story is trying to tell you. I almost want to sit down one day. Maybe we should do an episode on naming in in the Bible because it really does. When you when when the Amp Bible gives me these little notes, it changes the story.

SPEAKER_02: 36:02

Yeah. No, it definitely does. There's there is uh, I mean, names and places and cities and uh traditions and everything comes when you start to really look at it. Uh listen, one of the a lot of the episodes we talk about uh Jewish and Hebrew words have to do with action. Um Hesed is Torah love in action. Yeah, it we might call it covenantal love, but it is love in action by doing something, not just by feeling.

SPEAKER_01: 36:27

I I don't know if you have the answer to this question, but I mean agape I mentioned earlier. I I also know that's not Hebrew, that's Greek. So I I wonder if if agape is the Greek translation of Hesed. So there is similar or the same. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 36:41

Yeah, there I'd have to look that up to see if that's exactly where it translated to, but um, I seem to be in line with it.

SPEAKER_01: 36:47

They're they're brothers and sisters, those words.

SPEAKER_02: 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:49

I'd have to, I'll look it up and I'll I'll let you know. I'll come back to it. Yeah. Sounds good. All right, guys. Look, Ruth is four books of the Bible. It is rather fast to read, and it is absolutely worth the read. Um take a short break if you can today, read it, ponder it, question its mysteries. Uh, read it in AMP version if you have the the U version app, because it will add these little nuggets in there that are just really spectacular and it will add even more depth to it. So today was surprisingly, not surprisingly, another day where I learned far more than I had to offer. So thank you guys for uh continuing to push me. I thank you for that. We also thank you for listening. Uh happy 2026. If we didn't wish you that last week, we're looking forward to a very exciting uh year, a lot planned. And uh until then, until next week, we'll talk to you soon. Thanks a lot. Bye. See you guys.