SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez.

SPEAKER_01: 0:04

And I'm Jason Holloway.

SPEAKER_00: 0:11

Three and a three and a one and a go. The language of God sometimes is silent. The silence itself is actually the language. And I realize that while reading the Bible, every time I'm looking for information, I want to know what Jesus says and other characters say. Sometimes in the silence is where the the magnitude of volume gets overwhelmingly large. And I I wanted to talk about a little bit with you guys today about just silence and God's silence, our silence, and the whole thing. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02: 0:46

I think silence is golden. Silence is not fun. I think, especially nowadays, right? You you we're distracted by so many sounds and like visual stuff, right? Social media, TV, streaming, you know, everything is is always like moving and going. I mean, I'm from New York too, so like sounds is everything for me. And sometimes I need sounds to go to sleep. Like I need like bustling, I need to hear ambulances and and and and and police cars. I need to hear everything for me to for me to even have a peaceful sleep. So silence, it's scary to me sometimes, but the times that I have been silenced or silent has been world-changing for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32

I think everybody here has heard me talk before. Silence is not my number one thing. Sil silence. Look, silence is is is a strange topic because it's something that is good and bad. Right? Like there's there's times when you can be with your partner and be silent and be comfortable. And there's other times when that silence is deafening. And you know, and I think and that's with whether that's your relationship, whether that's a friendship, whether that's a client, whether whatever. I mean, you know, silence can take on either of them depending on what you're looking for or what the intention is, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 2:11

I actually have two verses that show just that because I agree a hundred percent. You know, I um I have talked to people who are avid hunters, and one of the favorite things they love about hunting is just sitting silently by a tree and being able to enjoy because the world moves so fast, because of so much noise, they enjoy the silence. But again, you know, that silence, if if my spouse is silent towards me after a fight, it's not gonna feel as good. So here's one that we don't quote a lot: Zephaniah 1 7, be silent before the Lord your God. So it's calling for us to be quiet. Then you go into Psalms 83.1. Oh God, do not keep silence, do not hold your peace or be still, oh God. There is a moment where you're like, please, God, don't be silent anymore. I need you to act. And then there are other times where it's like, no, no, let's let's be silent. So it it shows that even in the Bible, people are conflicted with whether or not silence is a good or a bad thing. And that's kind of what I want to talk about today is is the silence that we see in a couple of different moments in the Bible. We can't go through all of them. We would be here for hours. The there's two 400 years of silence that come to mind, which is the one in between Joseph and Moses in Egypt, and then the one that happens uh before Jesus. And those are both 400 years, almost identical, of silence, where God is not speaking to anybody does not mean that things aren't happening, but there's no conversation coming from God, no prophets, things like that. So let's talk about that as being uh for me kind of a an uncomfortable, oh man, this is silent now. What am I, what's going on? Why aren't you talking to me anymore, Lord? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:01

You know what came to mind as you were talking about that? I think also the length of the silence has a long has a lot to play with it, right? A lot to play in it, right? Like it's nice for a few minutes to be silent and to feel peaceful, but then it's like like especially when you're praying, right? If you're praying and you're quiet and you're like, oh man, this is the first time today I've had some quiet and some silence, and I'm focused and I'm here to hear God and not my own words, and then you're still silent, and then you go, but waiting to hear you. Waiting to I'm still waiting to hear something. And you know, like the silence even changes characteristics over the time that it's going to the point where even the two that you mentioned, I mean, the the the two silences are very different, those two 400-year silences. I mean, the the 400 year the first 400-year silence is really needed to be there because God needed it to make a lot of things work. A lot of things had to happen before something else could happen. There wasn't a punishment. In fact, it was to some extent in the beginning, it was probably a gift. They got a new land, they had food, and they had plenty to eat, and they had work, and they had all these things. It it turned bad, but the the silence in the beginning was just God letting things happen. And then ultimately bringing out of them. The 400-year silence before Jesus was punishment. I mean, that was I've told you over and over and over what to do, and you keep not doing it. And now I'm gonna be silent and let you let you wallow in your own issues for a bit so you see the beauty of it when it comes back. So yeah, I don't know. I have nothing on silence right now. I mean, it's like it's complicated, it's a very complicated issue. It's either really good or really bad.

SPEAKER_02: 5:38

I was gonna ask, because those two signs uh I don't really think about too much, I guess, before Jesus. I don't really know much about that, I will say. Now, would you say the 2,000 years from Jesus from the you could pr you could say pretty much the the apostles' letters and and stuff like that, would that be signs for now?

SPEAKER_00: 5:58

So I will I'll answer both, but let me get to the the 400 years. Just what's interesting because it kind of ties in what you're asking, Javi. The 400 years between Joseph and Moses, I agree with you 100%. I think it's preparation, it's them learning about the land, they're learning about other gods in Egypt, they're learning about you know what it feels like to be captives. There's a lot of learning that's happening there and preparation for them to then have the mass exodus. I agree, I actually think that the same thing happens in the 400 years before Jesus. You now have this group, this Roman group that are building roads now, that are building infrastructure for Jesus and for the spread of Christianity. I think that's also a preparation there. And to answer you, Javi, I think it's the same thing. It is now preparation for whatever will happen in the second coming. I think it's always hard when you're in it to figure out why it's for. Listen, you know, if I'm in it and the Romans are taking over, I'm going, where are you, God? Why are you allowing this to happen? If I'm in Egypt and I'm saying we were we came, we were second in line to the Pharaoh, and now we're all slaves. God, what are you doing? While you're in it, you don't see the preparation. But but I do believe that one of the subjects is yes, God uses silence to prayer, you know, to prepare us.

SPEAKER_01: 7:17

Yeah. What a great, what a great point. Like one of the things we've talked about, and it it's obviously a common theme that we've talked about in the last few months, but like one of the things that goes in here is God does punish us, but at the same time that God is punishing us, he is preparing us. They they happen hand in hand. I mean, look, we just we just got done talking about Cain and Abel, and like, yeah, he got a consequence and he had a a punishment put upon him, but God still protected him and he set him up what was for what was to come. So God, it's a consistency in God that he can do both simultaneously. He doesn't punish or prepare, he punishes and prepares. And I that's that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 8:00

And and and another P, he sometimes the silence, he's like, Listen, if I'm fighting with my spouse and he shuts my mouth, I'm like, actually, thank you for protecting me from myself.

SPEAKER_02: 8:12

From myself, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna I was gonna say also another P during the silence, his presence is always with us, regardless. Psalms 139, 7 through 10 says, you know, paraphrasing here, where where can I flee from your presence, right? Where can I go from your spirit, or where can I flee from your presence? God is still with us regardless, even during those times of silence, that we feel that maybe he's not speaking to us audibly, but he's always there with us. Jonah learned that the hard way too.

SPEAKER_00: 8:43

Yeah, yeah. There is just an enormous amount of times in the Bible where there was silence. Lamentations 326. It's I'm sorry, it is God that one should wait quietly for salvation of the Lord. He is now, again, asking us to be quiet, waiting for something. You know, I think sometimes, and you you mentioned it in the beginning, Javi, there's so much noise in the world. We add our noise to the world. People want to be influencers, they want to be the best at work, they want to always make noise, they want to be known. And they think that through being known is noise. And one of the things I learned is if you if you're in a room and they're children and they're making a lot of noise, sometimes when you talk really quietly and you just what all of a sudden happens is people notice you differently. And I think God was teaching that lesson a long time ago and said, Hey, when do you notice me the most? When I'm shouting or when I'm silent, I'm like, Oh, maybe when you're silent, that's really scary. Maybe I'm gonna take a little bit more notice. Um, and and it's it's again this wonderful lesson he's teaching us.

SPEAKER_02: 11:08

But he baked that into reality, I mean, to human experience pretty much, right? I mean, when you talk about silence, now that I'm thinking about it, I mean, rest could be silent, right? Like it's the Sabbath and having the the working and moving and continue throughout the day, you could say throughout the week for six days, and then the seventh day of just really trying to rest to find peace, to find silence, could be re-rejuvenating, right? It could be re-strengthening. I mean, Isaiah 40 to 31, it says, But those who wait on the Lord shall never shall renew their strength. I mean, you're able to find strength in waiting, strength in resting, and stuff like that. So I love that. I love about God, just God is incredible in so many ways.

SPEAKER_01: 11:52

It it may be a bit cliche, but Elijah's the one that comes to mind for that too. It's like, you know, Elijah was basically suicidal, and God was like, take a nap, and he took a nap, and things were better. And then, but he also like he went through these big tormentuous, crazy big things, and it wasn't until he was quiet on the mountain that he that he heard God whisper to him. And so, in that silence, like I think I'm sitting here just contemplating silence, and I think there's there's we we actually have to categorize it in two sides like God's silence, and then there's our silence towards God too. Because on on God's silence, there's it it may be for preparation, it may be for punishment, it may be for it may be for giving you some time to figure yourself out because we are noisy creatures in our heads, and sometimes we need to make a bunch of mistakes, or or we just need the time to be quiet and like you said, rest for us to see that the truth is sitting right inside of us already. We've been hearing that the whole time. We just needed to get rid of some of our new noise so we could hear, which is where it translates into our silence. Like we have to be silent so we can hear, but we also have to be careful that our silence doesn't become complacency and that our silence doesn't become, you know, I'm not talking to God. Because God can talk to me whenever he wants, but I also have to talk to God to expect to get a response. I have to be asking the right questions of myself. I have to be pushing myself towards what he's asking, and and I have to be there's an action, there's an action reaction, right? And and if I ask God for something, I I'll get the answer. If I never ask, I can't always be upset if I don't get like so. I think that we there's a there's silence is starting in my head as we're talking about it, starting to take on two qualities. It's God speaking or not speaking, and then whether or not we are intentionally speaking or intentionally listening as well.

SPEAKER_00: 13:44

Yeah, and here's here's the other thing that happens, and silence, we think of it as the lack of speaking. Sometimes silence is the lack of something with substance. I can speak a whole lot and have nothing to say. And my my words are silent even though I'm speaking. I feel very attacked right now, David. I feel very attacked.

SPEAKER_02: 14:06

This is me everyone.

SPEAKER_00: 14:07

But there is there's a moment when we are going, hey, I'm doing the right thing, I'm going through the right emotions, but I'm what's in me is all silence. And that's something where, you know, again, it might probably use even a third category of that, Jason, which is, you know, when when I talk, what what is coming out of my mouth is not truly what I'm feeling. And it is, it's silent. It is just there are words that have zero behind them. And, you know, I just think that the concept of silence is amazing. I I often say that between my test and my testimony is a moment of silence. And I get to choose whether that that test becomes a testimony or becomes my my grumbling. And, you know, that that's that moment of silence where, you know, don't let it last too long. You know, just as you said, it it can, you know, it can go an opposite way very quickly.

unknown: 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:04

I mean, again, I I there's this idea I'm thinking of right now. It's like, look, silence for me means listening. When I am silent, it's because I'm listening. And silence for me is because I'm listening. Now, I get frustrated when I don't hear something back. Now that's that's a whole other story, but that's maybe that's maybe that's part of what what Scott God is teaching us too. It's like we're not going to get those answers that quick. We're not going to you got to learn to be patient in the silence. I mean, there's a there's actually, you want to hear a funny story. There's a there's a funny negotiating tactic by hostage negotiators, or or any negotiator really. Wait, do you know what the you know what your best ally in a negotiation is? I have to imagine it's silence. You know what it is? Yeah, it's silence. Do you know why? You know why?

SPEAKER_00: 15:50

Because the other person's stuck with the problem.

SPEAKER_01: 15:51

Because people can't stand it, because the other person can't stand it, and they ultimately end up just like blabbering from the mouth and they give you more information than they intended. And information is the is the currency of a negotiation. So the if you're if you're in a negotiation or you're trying to get something out of somebody, you just be quiet. And you know, if you're quiet, they'll end up telling you what their problem is and they're or they'll end up telling you what they're looking for, or they'll end up telling you these things. And so really the problem isn't silence, the problem is our discomfort in that silence. And, you know, if you become comfortable in your silence, then you're able to listen more. So you have again, put two people on either side of a table, and one of them is comfortable in silence, and they're okay to sit there for five straight minutes quiet. The other person's not comfortable and they're gonna end up blabbing their mouth off. So it's the same thing with and and the person who was quiet has the benefit now of listening. They have the benefit of hearing something that wasn't available to them previously. And I think in a prayer life, sorry, I'm just kind of like processing this all simultaneously, but like even in prayer, like maybe I just need to get really good at being quiet and being comfortable for 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes without expectation that there's going to be an answer, but instead of getting uncomfortable and like shifting and jig jiggling and moving and walking away, you know, I think this is something that we, if we got comfortable with silence, we would probably hear more.

SPEAKER_02: 17:12

Yeah, I try to, I try to practice that more often than not. And sometimes God just makes me sit in silence. Some examples for me would be like when I drive when I'm driving, right? Driving to work, driving from work, and you know, I want to listen to a very popular biblical podcast, or you know, listening to or to like some kind of music or something like that. And sometimes I just need to not listen to it and just sit in my thoughts, sit with God and pray. And I think what you're saying right now, Jason, a lot of times I feel God already told me the answer. I just wasn't listening. And through that silence, I'm able to hear that answer he gave me. And and then I'm able to sit and go, wait a minute, maybe I've been trying to avoid this or fighting this, and I have to follow through of what the answer was that he gave me. And that's what it is. And a lot of times those silence are like I said, it's world-changing for me because once I started doing that, I started to notice that the Holy Spirit is saying, Hey, I already told you the answer. Stop asking me. Yeah, um, follow through. And it's been amazing to just sit in silence sometimes, not just speaking to God, right? You want to pray and you wanna you wanna ask God, hey, speak to me and let me hear you. And a lot of times the Holy Spirit does. He kind of just weeds things out of your mind of what distracting you, and you're able to hear God's voice more loudly.

SPEAKER_01: 18:40

I I feel sorry, Dave. I I I feel this very strong poll to say what I'm about to say. I think there are people like you, Javi, who have that experience, and I think that there are people like me who do try. I I think that I'm learning from this lesson that I need to definitely sit in silence more often and do it. But there are I go long swaths without feeling like God has told me anything. And and I don't think that anybody who's having that experience should feel like their faith is any less valuable, any less important, or any less you know connected. It's just that as as people, I think we also experience God differently. You know, and and sometimes, like you're saying, I feel like God's already given the answer. I I I went through a season even very, very recently, if not, I'm still in it, but that I I feel a call to something and I don't exactly know what it is. So God hasn't given me the answer. And I don't think that it's I don't think that it's God's given it to me and I haven't said something about it or haven't done anything about it. I don't think it's become clear yet.

SPEAKER_02: 19:36

And I think I'm I think I've have you have you taken a step forward into anything that he has. Have you been quiet enough to figure it out? I mean, I think honestly I have, but I think I've got to try one or two things that you feel maybe it is, is what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_01: 19:49

The thing is, I don't know, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Like I I I there I don't know what it is. And if I knew what it was, I could take a step. And I think again, I'm saying this out loud because I think I'm I'm sure I'm not the only person in life who's ever experienced this. That I don't have a clear next step. Like there's no clearly defined next step. There's not even a clearly defined hey, or there's not even a nebulous, like, hey, you should be doing a blankety blank blank blank. Like it's just like I know I'm being, I feel like this compulsion and like God saying, I'm calling you, but then I'm hearing that's what you know, and again, I don't think that's for a while I thought that was very negative, and I was feeling very down on myself for not being able to hear it. But I I don't know, I feel like the need to like say this out loud because I feel like other people are probably in this or have had this and and don't know that this is something other people go through. And like it it's sometimes sometimes it takes time. I mean, the other thing about silence is sometimes the silence is waiting for you to be ready to hear it. So maybe whatever God's calling me to do or saying you need to take this step, he's also saying you're not ready for it.

SPEAKER_00: 20:56

But don't be surprised when I Here's the thing, and I'm gonna c I'm gonna kind of use Javi, what you said with something that Jason you're gonna light up instantly, which is you know, to hear God's voice better, sometimes you need the quiet. It's the way you understand God's voice is to have quiet afterwards. And it's the same when I look at a musician. It's not the music, it's the silence, it's the pauses, it's the breaks. In between the music that makes that music really beautiful. And sometimes we look at silence and we're like, man, this is this is awful, but that's what makes the music really beautiful. At the end of the music, at the end of your conversation with God, through the silence, through hearing his voice, there's always revelation. And I'm not talking about the book revelation. I'm saying there's always a revealing of something. Something revealed. And I think that, you know, we feel it could feel like 400 years. And you're saying, okay, what are you trying to tell me? But I think that when when you look at music, and I know I'm the only reason I use that analogy is Jason, I know you love music. If it was just a constant sound, it would be terrible. But it's those breaks, those pauses that makes music to me really beautiful. Totally. And so I think whatever you're going through and going, hey, why this and what's that? If you take the noise and then the silence and put them together, it makes this beautiful symphony that is going to have a revelation for you.

SPEAKER_02: 22:22

Yeah, I was gonna say something similar to that. Like I was gonna say, like when you're feeling silent, when you're going through the silence part and you're going, Well, I'm not hearing from God, I'm not understanding what's going on. Just know, and this is general, not talking about what you just said. No, I agree. I know where you're going, and I agree 100%. God is we have to remember God is present, he's always with us. And within that presence or within that science that you're feeling, just continue to seek him, continue to go after him, right? Hebrews 11 6 talks about, but without faith, it is impossible to please him. And then it goes off to say he is a rewarder of those who digitally diligently seeks him. And we want to continue to do that. And within seeking him, just know that his timing is perfect, right? He's able to renew us in that. When I think about the 400 years of silence, I think about that, like we were talking before, just a it's a time of preparation to what's to come. And when we look back at it, it's like a preparation time of what's to come. And the biggest preparation was the birth of Jesus Christ going into a season of the birth of Jesus Christ, which is amazing that we're talking about this, which is awesome. So I think I just want to say and encourage those that are going through a silent period or feel they're going through a silent period to hold on and continue to seek God, and you would you would seek and you would reap the reward after.

SPEAKER_01: 23:40

I think it's so wildly interesting and important that you brought it back to faith because that is the word. I mean, I haven't told either of you guys any of this stuff, but that that's the word actually that it's the only word that's been like repeated in the back of my head over and over and over. Is like when we started this podcast, I said that I learned that faith is not a noun, it's a verb. And you know, you mentioned Hebrews 11, which is what click, like like wildly opened up that box, which is, I mean, that's the faith. That's the that's the faith chapter, right? Like and all those things were telling what faith really is. Faith is continuing down a road, even though you have no idea what's down the end of that road. It's a belief that the continuation of your actions and your activities and your heart intention are going to lead you in the right way as long as you follow God, follow God, follow God. Nobody said you know, Abraham was so faithful because he was on fire for the Lord. No, they you know, nobody said that, you know, David was, you know, David was a person who continually said that my life is great. None of those things said. If you go to that Hebrew, that faith passage, it says he kept going, he kept trying, he kept doing, he believed it. And that's been the thing. It's like, as I don't know, as the silence has been there, what has also been there has been a faith, has been a, I'm going to continue walking this journey, I'm going to continue living my life in this way, I'm going to continue comporting myself in such a way that my actions show that I believe it, that my life shows the fruit of, you know, this this belief system. And, you know, I think for for anybody who is in the situation that I have been or maybe still am in, that's that's what God's growing. That's what God's able to grow right now, is the fact that, hey, look, it doesn't have to be a feeling anymore. Now it's now it's faith. It doesn't have to be a knowledge, it it can be uh wisdom. It doesn't have to be a um it doesn't have to be a feeling, it can be an action. And the action is equally as important as the feeling or the knowledge or the wisdom or any of it. And so um faith, faith when you are in moments of silence, that's what gets the silence to that's what quells the silence is the faith.

SPEAKER_00: 25:56

And I think that's what I think sometimes comfort w when I deal with people who have tremendous loss, sometimes the greatest comfort I give to give them is just be there in silence. And and I think for right now, the way I will hearing that you're you're going through something right now, Jason, and you're in some of the silence, and I know that silence is rare for you. Uh, I will sit there in silence with you and just be there and say, listen, your brain's gonna work. I know how your brain goes and it's gonna go a million miles an hour. But at the end of that is gonna be some silence and some noise. And I know what's gonna come out of the other end is this beautiful symphony with a revelation that is gonna come from God. So I will end my time here being silent with you.

SPEAKER_01: 26:44

Well, I I think it's ironic that you said the best thing you can give to other people is silence, because I think most people think the best gift I can give them is silence too. They're like, just shut up already. Just stop. Just just stop talking. So, with that being said, I'm gonna give everybody the gift of my silence from here on out and say thank you guys for listening to yet another conversation where things are revealed, questions are answered, and God shows his face. So we appreciate you. We thank you for always listening, and we'll talk to you again next week. I'll see you guys. Silence. Bye, guys.

unknown: 27:25

Bye.