SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, and welcome to our Christmas episode. And I'm excited to talk with you guys today. And I think the topic's gonna be really interesting because Christmas to me is the moment when distance died. And what I mean by that is this is the point at which God actually came down from what we know as the Old Testament, somebody who is unapproachable, you can't look at them, can't go near them, to somebody who is here in the flesh and who we can interact with. And it really is just that moment to me where distance completely dies, and now God is here on earth. So welcome to our Christmas episode. I'm excited to talk with you guys today. That was such an interesting Christmas music in the background while that's going. One of the first things I learned about, not learned about, but kind of figured out on my own when God came is I'm going to kind of talk about the God of the Old Testament, especially where most people think this is the God of the Old Testament. And listen, we can argue back and forth about it, and we have before and we will again, I'm sure. But the God of the Old Testament is this really scary father who has these miracles that can punish, and he's behind the Holy of Holies, and only one person can go and see him, not even see him, but experience his presence once a year. Even Moses could only see his back. I mean, this was the most dominant force in the world and the old testament. And then in the New Testament, how does he come? He's a baby. That's the way we that's the way we learn about him. And I think it's so great because it makes God so much more approachable than if he came as the conquering hero and the Messiah's here and don't touch. This is the baby who is born in a manger and sitting on Mary's lap, and everything that a baby is, which to me is innocence and love and kindness and everything rolled into one. So that's kind of how it starts.

SPEAKER_02: 2:09

I don't want to mess your flow, David, but we also know in Genesis God did walk with Adam and Eve, right? So there's that too. He was present with them, he was there with them and roamed with them until sin came into existence. But then he comes.

SPEAKER_01: 2:23

Then they went and screwed it up. Then they went to screw it up. Yeah. I mean, you know, that that's why they that's why they call Jesus the second Adam, too, right? I mean, it's like the the Adam and Eve screwed up. And when humans, Adam and Eve screwed up, it separated us humans from God. So that was the point. If you're talking about this is the time that the distance was closed, that was the time the distance was opened. Oh, look at that. So in the Old Testament, this that was the time that the distance opened between God and humans. And we've basically spent the next however many thousands of years being divinely inspired by God, learning from God, learning about God, learning about ourselves, and and being being distant from Him. And maybe we spend a minute talking about what God is in the Old Testament. I mean, God, God is we we screwed up and we became these creatures of humanity, something the likes of which the world had never seen previously. And we were, you know, dual-natured. We have a tendency towards egoism and self and things like that, which is why in the beginning you have things like Cain and Abel, you know, the murder of Cain and Abel. You have the, then you have societies who are killing other societies, and you have all these, and then you have people who are acting ungodly, Sodom and Gomorrah. And so it the God of the Old Testament is the is the God of a very uncivilized society who's making mistakes and needs extreme correction. Like, needs clear and remember, think about how we know God. Like we don't get God sitting behind us telling something or sending us a text message. Like we have to figure it out. But a lot of times that's what divine inspiration is. It's us figuring it out through trial and error, through, through cause and effect. And so the God of the Old Testament is a bit harsher, I think, than the God that we that we come to know later. And it's because he had to be. Just like you have to be a bit harsher on a on somebody who doesn't know anything than than those who who already know. And over the centuries and millennia, we came to know more. And as we knew more, we came to need a bit less correction. Or at least it had been revealed to us what the problem was now. And so we had somewhere to read it or somewhere to somewhere to understand it that wasn't God striking us down with these big things. So again, I I didn't plan to say any of that, but I mean I think that's that's an important part when we talk when you started with the fact that we're about to get close to God before and and it seems like a very different God. It's because it probably was. Probably, I mean, same nature of God, of course, but the the expression of God towards humans had to be different because humans themselves were different.

SPEAKER_00: 4:56

Yeah. No, listen, I'm glad you said that actually. It it I think it'll tie in very well with our conversation. One of the things I I looked at when I started kind of poking around at God coming to earth and and why, and we'll get into all that. Like I said, is is him as a baby. And I think that a lot of times there are different churches that do different stories on this, and they do with the manger and they do with the inn and they do different conversations on it. One of the things I looked at was we don't get to choose our parents. We don't get to, our kids don't get to choose us, but here's God who gets to choose his parents, and he can come down at any time to anybody, and it's Mary and Joseph. And I just started looking at that story, and I just want to just touch on it really quick. And this is Matthew 118. And there are a couple of things that I found in there that were really interesting. So when the birth of Jesus took place this way, when his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph. Now, this is very interesting because they're engaged, but right after that, they then call them husband and wife. And what I realized that is in Jewish culture, betrothal is just like marriage. You're supposed to hold on to the same type of laws and rules and all that, except there's no hanky panky. Um, so obviously we know that with Mary being pregnant, Joseph would have been, in my mind, I always thought the story was like, man, he would be really upset. I'd be really upset if my wife was pregnant and I and it wasn't me. And he said he could have stoned her by Levitical law, but chose not to. And I always looked at that as him being merciful towards her. But what I never realized is in the town, when you're betrothed, you go out and you tell everybody in the town that this is your fiance. Everybody knows it. So that means that if he is keeping the secret from her, he then needs to be the scapegoat. He's the one taking on all of the shame for her because now she's pregnant. The town will think it was him who then went against Levitical law. So he's taking on the shame for her. For God to choose a man to be his father, to take the shame on for somebody he loves right off the bat, set sets the story very differently. And then it says, and her husband Joseph being a just man, and I think about the word just, and it's only used a handful of time for the handful of people, Noah being one of them, but be being able to uh balance just and grace is something that God does. That's something we talk about, God, his justice and his grace, his love and his mercy. And I'm going, man, for him to be able to choose parents, I know I went on a long time. I'll I'll I'm gonna stop talking in a moment, but no, no, it just I mean, to open up a story and say God came to live as a as a as a human and got to choose his parents, and who did he choose? And man, look at Joseph, the man who comes out like this, and then you never hear about him again. Totally. So it was just a really great way to kind of for me to to when God of the old testament, who, like you said, seems to be very commanding, borderline scary, in charge, just really like ruling with an iron fist, and then comes as a baby and even sets the stage where his his father is this just but graceful man. Um wow.

SPEAKER_01: 8:24

I mean well, it tells you about his character. It tells you about his character, right? It it tells you about if I have to give a child to a foster parent to raise, I'm gonna put them in the hands of people who I want to raise them to be the type of person that they're gonna be, right? So that's what God did. God gave his son, who needed to be raised by good people, to good people. And that's the beginning of that story. And that goodness couldn't have been seen, for example, had they already been married. Yep. Like it wouldn't have been seen because then Jo Joseph wouldn't have had his chance to show that he was just, he wouldn't have had a chance to show his self-sacrificial nature to say, I'll take on the shame for her because God did that. Like, so it it's kind of the only way, I can't even think of another way that it could have happened in which that expression of self would have been shown. Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 9:17

I feel like yeah, I was gonna say I I hear what you're saying, David. I think you're right. Uh there were amazing parents and amazing people, but it's also it was planned, meaning like the lineage for Mary leads back to David and the lineage going back all the way back to Adam. So I think that it almost had to work out, right? It almost had to be that that prophetic. So I think there's that too. And I think God always had a hand in Joseph and and Mary. And obviously, that's what the angels were there. Angels angels came to Joseph saying, Hey, I know this looks weird. Just believe the fact that this is meant to be, she did not cheat on you. This is you are gonna give birth, she's gonna give birth to the son of God. Like, yeah, no, you're agreed. Yeah, agreed blessed, but completely.

SPEAKER_00: 10:09

But the angel never said, Hey, you need to take upon her whatever the town might say for for yourself and all that. I I think he did show that. Yeah, and then I'll I'm gonna go one over one more point, which is further in that passage, it talks about when behold, you will you shall conceive and you shall call him Emmanuel. And he talked the the angel says you'll name him Jesus and all that. Um in verse 25, but knew, but he knew not her until she gave birth to Jesus. So he still stayed pure with her, and he called his name Jesus. And we again, in in this time period, not understanding Jewish rule, we glaze over that and go, okay, yeah, the angel said name him Jesus, he named him Jesus, moving on. What's interesting is in Jewish tradition, if the man names the child, he is literally declaring responsibility for this child. So what Joseph is doing by saying he named the child Jesus is I know this child is not biologically mine. I'm accepting responsibility, full responsibility for this child. So it's him going even a step further saying, I'm gonna take on the shame for her, I'm gonna be just, and I'm gonna take the responsibility of somebody that is not technically mine. And I'm again, it's just I'm I'm not saying that, yes, God definitely arranged this, and I'm not saying that we should look at Joseph as God, but man, the characteristics, like you said, Jason, that that Jesus is born into is just phenomenal. And it it almost leads me as a father to be like, how do I how do I up my game? How do I become more just? Because it didn't say that Joseph was like the nicest dad, the coolest dad. It was no, he was just. Um, and I'm going, man, how do I be just with grace?

SPEAKER_01: 11:58

That's yeah, I mean, again, he it Joseph is such a key character. I mean, look, I as a father, I know what it means to have that responsibility. And that I'm given a responsibility by God to raise my child in a certain way, and and that's that's a lot of pressure. But my son's not Jesus. The the pressure that that Joseph must have felt to do that, and the I don't know, the the responsibility he must have felt. And and clearly, let me the other thing is he you you said it yourself, he named Jesus, right? Yep because he was told by the angels what to name him, I believe. Yep. Um and the name Jesus means uh something like Yahweh saves. So it's clear he knew exactly what this role was. Joseph knew what the role was, he knew what he was getting himself into, he knew what Mary was gonna have to go through. And he not only protected his son and and raised him in the way that God had asked him to, but he protected his wife. He protected his wife from the shame. He protected her, he didn't stone her, he didn't kill her, he didn't nullify the upcoming wedding and run off because that would have been bad to his name. So I think there's a I I don't know, I I I have a deep respect for Joseph for truly standing up and being all the things that we say a man should be. He protected his wife, he protected his family, he protected his son, and he did so with a very divine calling while knowing how high the stakes were. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02: 13:35

And and now to to to shift oh good, good, Javi, because I'm gonna shift off of Joseph. No, no, no, go ahead. No, I want I was thinking about shifting in a sense of like, because you guys are talking about this, and I'm just thinking, like, why? Why did God do it this way? Why did God was the way he was in the old testament lead to a thousand years, was it a thousand years of silence into this baby? Now he comes as his baby. Why? And why does it matter? Why does it matter for the for it to be the baby in that way, in that conceived in that way?

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

Yep. I and I think it's a great shift. I think it happens to be because what we start to see is God in the softest voice is still able to shake the world. And so now we have Jesus who entered the world. This is God in the flesh, who has entered our world. And I think that God's showing that he is living as man. It is not to show off, it is not to say, hey, I can be perfect, but it's literally to say, I can connect to you on a personal level. I've walked as a man, I have felt betrayal and sadness and hurt and all the things. You know, just popping off the head of my mind thinking about this, when Lazarus, his friend, died, and Martha and Mary come to him. Mary's crying and he cries. And that's that's exactly where I was going. I'm going, this is God in the flesh, who knows? Hey, I'm about to resurrect Lazarus. And I'll ask you guys, because this gets asked to me all the time, which is why did he cry? If Lazarus was going to be resurrected, he knew it. Why did he cry? Jesus wept. Yeah, why?

SPEAKER_02: 15:09

Hobby, why do you think the only one of the verses I know? It's okay. One of the few verses. Jesus wept. I think it's amazing because that was his friend. My friend passed, and there's there's a hurt there. And it wasn't right away that he resurrected him. He was he waited a couple days, and I think there's reasons behind that. But I think I think that's what I got from it when he wept. Is like, wow, this is with a friend that was was dearly to him. Like was it was it was a really deep friend. And he sees people, he saw his the sisters that were were there were mourning. And so the Bible talks about it. Mourn with those who mourn and cry with those who cry, right? Or laugh, something like that. I forgot. I'm butchering it, but we definitely know that it's mourn with those who mourn. And he was mourning with the sisters and everybody else in the community that lost someone.

SPEAKER_01: 16:35

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I it empathy, right? He he has empathy. He sees her crying, he cries. He he understands what I mean, clearly he's seen it before, but he understands what death means. And you anybody who realizes what death means cries, and and also probably, I don't know, just thinking out that if if he happens to know what's coming in his own future, he's he's crying for what's coming as well. Like he sees that this is the first person who's going to die and resurrect, and they're not gonna live forever, like like me, but this is what people are gonna feel. This is what they're gonna feel when I die. This is what they're gonna see when I die.

SPEAKER_02: 17:09

Yeah. I was gonna also add, I think, and I love what you said that Jason, because yeah, you're right. Like the one of the biggest things for God coming in the flesh is that I for me, what I got out of it. It's God didn't just come here and had no feelings, right? He's he's obviously he's God, he doesn't really need to feel this way in this type of way. But for him to for us to read that he's cried, he suffered, yeah, he went through these things, he he got he got betrayed. I could relate to a God like that. God knows my struggle. So I think us reading that, those two little words, Jesus wept is like, wow, he understands mourning, he understands suffering, he understands loss. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:47

Um, just I think we took a huge sorry, we took a huge step forward, right?

SPEAKER_00: 17:51

I actually we took a huge step forward. Go ahead. Um, just because I'm I'm a Bible nerd. So, you know, Javi, Javi had said really quickly, you know, he was in the ground for a few days or in the burial tomb for a few days of being Lazarus. I'm sure there's significance, but I just because I can't let it pass. In in Jewish tradition, it was four days that he was in the tomb. Your nepesh, your your soul, according to tradition, hung around your body for three days. So Jesus allowed him to get to the fourth day to show that when I resurrect him, your soul would have been gone anyway. It's just one of those cool, significant, again, I I I nothing to do with the story, just one of those, man. I needed to to bring that up because it's it really is a cool moment. We haven't talked about that story yet on our podcast, but but yeah, that's that's the reason behind it. So I apologize for the put that on put that on the list then.

SPEAKER_01: 18:39

Because like I said, we look, we took a huge step forward, but I think I think the step is actually gonna is actually gonna help us because we know we know the before God, right? We know the before God was the consequence God, the learning God, the the the strong, the intangible God, the the the as you started from the beginning, the separate God. And then fast forward and we're gonna get a non-separate God, a personal God, a connected God, a human God. We're gonna get all those things. So what makes the what makes the birth so significant? What makes Christmas so significant? What makes the the the manger scene significant is this this big God who has given consequences and like you said, Hubby, Hobby, he put him in 400 years of isolation because they continued to go against him and they continued to or silence, sorry, 400 years of silence because he kept trying to teach them and trying to teach them and trying to teach them and they didn't get it. And they did they didn't get it. And even when they did get it, they would let it go. And so he gives them 400 years of silence so that they can have some he basically sent them to the room for 400 years to say, think about what you've done. And how does he open the door after their 400 years of being in time out? He he he calmly, quietly, lovingly walks in the door and says, I too understand what it's like to be you. And I I want to show you that I didn't do that out of malice. I didn't do that. I know you guys have suffered, and I'm gonna show you that I understand it suffers because I'm gonna do it to myself too. And I'm gonna show you now that I'm one of you. I'm gonna show you now that I can that I'm gonna, in fact, he does two things. Number one, he's gonna say, I'm gonna show you that I understand what it's like to be there, but I'm also gonna show you that you can overcome it. I've I've given you these the entirety of the Old Testament is is and and you can map it out clear as day. Success, failure, success, failure, success, failure, success, failure. It's just over and over and over and over because people believe and then they stop and then they believe and they stop and then they believe and they stop. And so this is the time where he says, okay, I'm gonna help put an end to this stopping part. You can believe, and I'm gonna show you that you can believe and you can still continue to believe over and over and over and over. And I'm gonna give you a more personal, tangible way to do that. And so that's that's the big deal. Like when when after this 400 years of silence, Jesus is brought to be that connective tissue between him and them. It's to say that I understand what you go through, I understand how hard it is to continue believing and being faithful, but watch me do it. And look at the benefit. By the way, look at the benefit. Look at the impact you can make on the world when you deny your ego, when you deny yourself pleasure, and you and you only go after what is good in the right eyes of God. And Jesus becomes that very tangible thing, which is why we still say, What would Jesus do? Because when I'm having a hard day and I have no idea what I would do and what the Bible's telling me to do, I ask myself, what would Jesus do? And then I probably know that whatever I'm doing is stupid. Yeah. It's but but I the the Old Testament doesn't have that. So I think that's what makes Christmas so special, and that's what makes me now so excited about Christmas is like it's this time to say, God came back to us in a very reasonable, very emotionally touching way to say, I get it. Yeah, you guys have it tough.

SPEAKER_00: 22:04

But this is what it looks like. One of the things that I always quote you on, and I love it, is when we said is it this or that? You said it's probably this and that. Um and and this is the ultimate to me, this and that. And the reason is that Jesus' ultimate goal was to reconnect what Adam and Eve broke, which is the reason the way we can stay with God, the reason we can be with him again is because Jesus was a scapegoat and paid with his life. And we know that the purpose was that that's the he was here because, but the and or the or that combines it is he was here living as a person going through hunger, going through pains, going through all the things that connects him to us in humanity and it makes us look and go, I can have a relationship with before that God was this far away being that, hey God, I need water for my crops. Hey, God, this is you know where where life is, and I need you to change this for me. And now this is God walking among us. And I and listen, it is one, it is the greatest miracle, but it's also the one that causes a lot of different people and different religions to reject him, going, God is too big, he would never come down as a human. Where Christians are going, God is so big and so wonderful, he came down as a human. That he did. That he did. Yeah, right. And I just when I think about Joseph and starting off that story and saying like he was a scapegoat for Mary and going, Yes, Jesus had to be the scapegoat for us. He had to be. It's the only way to pay the this the sin debt that we caused. But while he was here to live as a man, the amount of relationship and connection we can have with Jesus, and when you see him weep, when you see him hunger, when you see him feel betrayed, when you see all these things, when you see him kneeling down, washing the feet of humans, knowing that what he's about to do, man, I just obviously it's one thing to have reverence for the Lord, it's another thing to feel deeply connected. And I think this is that moment where you can feel deeply connected because he's human.

SPEAKER_01: 24:14

I I, as you were saying, that's funny. You said other people from other religions sometimes say, well, God's so big he would never come down. And I I actually think that logically speaking, that's it's illogical. If if God is so big that he is and knows and does everything, then he already knows what it's like to be a human. He already knows what that's like, right? So the the logic isn't that he wouldn't do it. The logic is the reason he did it is because we aren't smart enough to know that he knows what it's like. We we needed we because we're dumb. We need proof, we need to see stuff. We we need to we need to viscerally, physically, tangibly touch stuff before we believe it, because we're dumb. That's just what we are. So God realized our limitations. It's not that he did it because he could or couldn't or would or wouldn't, it's because he chose to, because he knew that we weren't getting it. Like we needed to say, we we always from a distant God had this ability to say, Well, yeah, that's great. We want to do that, but I have this body, and this body just keeps me from doing stuff. Yeah. Like I'm hungry. I'm hungry, and when I'm hungry, I'm angry. Sorry, sorry, God, that's just the way it is. And then he said, All right, I get that, but you are capable, you are capable of getting over that hangriness and and being different. And in fact, since I've tried to show you for the last 2,000 years, let me let me put myself in your shoes and show you how to do this. Let me let me physically show you it's possible. And and I think that's that's actually the glory of the whole story. And I didn't mean to rhyme there, but my battle rap career is taken off now. So the, you know, he, I mean, that's that's that's the glory of the whole thing is that God looked at us from a from a high and said, you guys just aren't getting it. And I'm trying, I really am trying, and you really do have the brains in your heads to get there, but you're not getting there. So let me take this other step that will help you. Let me let me give you the the proof that you need. And and he did. And and then you have this baby who's born in this manger in the lowest. Nobody would have said, imagine guys, if he was a human who was a king, we still would have had the same doubts. Well, clearly that guy had everything and he could do it. So, so he had to be born in the lowest possible rung of the of the system. And he had to grow up in some sort of need or some sort of poverty or some sort of need, I guess. And so and then to grow into who he became and to say that he did it sinlessly and he did it well, and he did it with honor and he did it self-sacrificially, so that we don't we don't have an excuse anymore. Like we we really don't have an excuse anymore. When I'm hungry and starting to get angry, I'm like, what would Jesus do? Well, he wouldn't wouldn't say what I just said. He'd be he'd be quite a bit better than that. So I should strive to do that too, because he can.

SPEAKER_00: 27:02

Yeah. I mean, look, I think that Jesus was frustrated, as a human would be. Listen, he flipped tables, he, he, you know, he uh he did things to show that he still has the command and power of the Lord, and he still got upset at things. But what I think I I inadvertently said earlier, but you know, he's showing his power in quietness. I think he had spent 4,000 years on the top of a mountain thundering away, saying, Listen, this is who I am, this is what you need to do. And because we didn't listen, he's now quietly saying, Here I come in the world as a baby, here I am growing up, trying to show you a different way to live, a more loving way to live. Here are the important things to follow along the way, and then sacrifice for our sins. I think that man, God didn't lose any more power. And anybody says he came as a man and God wouldn't, and because you lose all your no, he didn't lose any of his power. In fact, I think sometimes you show even more. If you can, if you if you're God and you don't have to fear anything and you don't have to feel anything, and I think that's sometimes people feel that. They're like, well, God doesn't feel bad and he's all powerful. He just came as a man, felt everything, and still kept his course, still stayed on task, still went through all of the pain of the the sacrifice on the crucifixion. And man, I just it's the strongest person. And it's funny because we started off this conversation talking about people that we know that are really strong and what they've gone through. And if I think about just how strong of a person it would have taken to do what he did, it's definitely not less strength than the old testament God. In fact, to me, it's more, not at all.

SPEAKER_02: 28:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not only that, not only he came as a baby, he lived that life of sinless life, right? He came in sinless and he left, he lived a life of sinless, and then he sacrificed himself for us, the atonement for our sins, right? But not only that, he was a resurrection, right? He came back, and he showed it, which I think is the most significant thing of all two. We have to remember that if he died and didn't come back, then there's little for us to really follow in a sense, right? He showed us that he is God in that way. And I think one of the biggest things I thought was kind of cool, and I think Jason loves talking about doubting Thomas, right? When he came back, and Thomas didn't believe that he was back, he didn't believe in God and Jesus Christ walking around, right? He thought he was dead. He had to touch him, he had to like put his hand through the hole that he was crucified through. And Jesus says, Blessed are those who have not seen and yet still believe, which makes me think Jesus didn't walk with us here now. Me as a believer, 2000 years later, I don't have Jesus with me in a sense, right? I physically. So he says, Blessed are those who believe even now that haven't seen. So I think what I'm trying to say there is although we didn't see it, we there's evidence to see that Jesus Christ was a human being, he was He was uh He was a God in human form and left behind a big impact, but also He left us behind the Holy Spirit, and through that we're able to have faith in knowing that God did come to human to human form, but also left behind something even bigger than what he was when he was walking around. So blessed are those, you guys, but also those out there that are following Christ that haven't seen and still believe.

SPEAKER_03: 30:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:40

Even that, you know, you think about God, the God the Father couldn't be looked at, couldn't be approached, the blinding light, the one that would kill you if you if you went into the holy of holies and was not purified correctly, came as a human, is able to be interacted with, touched, conversated with, all that. And then, like you said, doubting Thomas, now you're talking about his resurrected spiritual body, which we're able to Thomas was able to touch as well. So I think that God had also his approach and his way that we can approach him as well. He's no longer somebody we can't look at, feel Holy Spirit is in us. I think, man, that's it's changed everything.

SPEAKER_01: 31:21

Well, to your point, I mean, you started this by saying it's the it's the getting closer to God, right? And so that now more than ever, we feel like we don't have a disembodied force to be responsible to or accountable to. We now feel, I mean, we also have we have the Holy Spirit, which is the, you know, I won't get into what the Holy Spirit is, right? But it's the it's our daily tangible understanding, our insight, the the feel, the the feelings, beliefs, knowledge, information, guidance that we have inside of us that is apparently more tangible than it was before Jesus came. And so we are now no longer. I even look sometimes, I'm just trying to understand how people understand gods. Like, you know, we had the the God of Yahweh, but the Bible even says there were other gods, and people prayed to other gods, people asked other gods for things. And so it goes to tell you, you know, before Jesus, everybody had this belief system in a a thing, a power, an intangible, an untouchable force or a natural condition or something. And so, by the way, we don't, we've never any of the people right here talking right now or even listening has never lived in a in a part of history where there was no Jesus. So we have to remember that there was a part before there was where all gods were just these nebulous forces and ideas and nothing more. And so, man, I hadn't had that thought before. But that's a weird, that's a weird thought, right? Like, we don't even know what it's like to live in a world that doesn't have a tangible God. Even the people who are not Christians who have ever heard about Jesus know that there was a tangible God who walked on this earth. I guess Buddhists have, you know, their Buddha Guatama or whatever his name is. That was really disrespectful, sorry. But there there was an original Buddha who was a human, so they say. But like we we have never lived in that place. We only ever lived in a place where there's a physical, tangible God. And so before that, we have to try and understand the context of it, which was that there was thousands and thousands and thousands of years where God is its untouchable thing. And we are lucky enough to live in an age where that's not the truth. It's not a force, it's not a uh a natural cause, it's a person. And we can put our faith and we can put our feelings and our and our vision and our trust in something like that. And again, that's the beauty of Christmas. That was the time when that was born. That was the time when that was born, and for the first time, humanity had that blessing.

SPEAKER_00: 33:50

That is a really deep and heavy statement. And I love that you said that. I love that your brain got you there because I hadn't thought about that either. And and I hope that for everybody else listening, that this is where God closes the distance for them from the faraway God to the God that walked with us, to the God that is now living inside of us. Emmanuel. I got nothing more to add to that.

SPEAKER_02: 34:14

That's uh I mean God with us. Is it Emmanuel?

SPEAKER_01: 34:18

God with us. Beautiful. Yes. So Christmas is such a special time and it's so full of presents and activities and opportunities to spend time with loved ones. But never forget that everybody here listening and that we spend time with also lives in an age where we have the ability and the blessing to be able to say thank you to the God that was born, that was brought into this world so that we would be able to see him, touch him, feel him, experience him. And I right now I feel very blessed to be part of this world and not that. And so I hope that everybody has a lovely Christmas season and that you get to spend some time in church and uh and and say thanks to that God who was born on this earth for us and who would ultimately sacrifice his life for us and give us eternal life and give us this wonderful life that we've been blessed with today. So, Javi, any any special Christmas uh Christmas wishes from you? Too many.

SPEAKER_02: 35:19

I just continue to remember the the reason for the season, to be honest. Um I think there's a gift there for us to to remember. God gave it a gift coming as a as a baby being born to to do much more than just remain a baby, but to live and walk with us and show us that we too can have a relationship with God in a physical form, but also in a in a spiritual form. So I'm I'm blessed by this episode, and I'm blessed by this time of season just remembering God in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01: 35:53

All right, guys, we thank you for your time. As always, we wish you a very merry Christmas, and we hope to talk to you again soon, and we'll see you shortly. Thanks a lot. Have a good day.