SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, maybe you've heard the cliche before, but I heard this the other day. It's that seeing is believing. But with Jesus, it's the opposite. It's believing is seeing. And I know we know that from when we first accept Christ, the Holy Spirit goes into us and we're able to understand some scripture that we couldn't understand before, but it really just hit me kind of differently that when I heard it. And I'm going, man, believing is seeing with Jesus. And it just led me to kind of think about the kind of thought of blindness and in the Bible, blindness and what it really means.

SPEAKER_01: 0:43

Yeah. I mean, I I think that blindness thing is one of the more interesting things in the Bible, right? It's they it's it's in the Old Testament, it's in the New Testament, it is both literal, it's figurative, it's metaphorical. And I know I had the experience when I first came back that I had been quote unquote blind to things for years, things that I would not have accepted, not have acknowledged, facts that I would have ignored or even dismissed. That once I allowed this to even be a possibility, once I allowed that the Christian religion and Jesus and God could be a reality, that these those things that I was really anti before, I became a proponent of because I could see the meaning behind it. I could see the feeling behind it. And so it's super interesting, and I'm excited to see where you're going to take this today.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36

Well, what's funny about blindness is I'm so blind sometimes that even when I started researching blindness, one of the stories that comes to my mind right away is when the blind man came to Jesus, he spit on the dirt, rubbed it in his hands, and rubbed it on the blind man's eyes. And I it it just it's one of those stories with all the miracles in the Bible. I'm going, why would he do that? And it's probably because I just think spitting on your hands and rubbing in someone's eye is is really disrespectful. And in my blindness, I'm like, I have to learn more about this and wait to hear what I learned. All right, you ready for this? Let's do it. I am so in in first century, in the ancient times, blindness was actually fairly common because of the dust, the sunlight. Remember, they're not they don't have a Ray-Ban store where they can cover up their eyes. So because of the sun, because of malnutrition, because of bacteria, because of disease, blindness was something that happened very often. And one of the things that happened was once you were blind, you never were cured. There wasn't really a cure for it. But what people tried to do was they'd mix a poultice of charcoal and animal fat and oils, and they try to draw it out. And one of the things they did was to make a mud with spit and some of these spices or products to rub in somebody's eyes to draw out the impurities. And here, Jesus is spitting and rubbing it on somebody's eyes to take out the spiritual impurities in his life and correcting his vision at the same time, his physical vision. Even when I started researching, I'm going, Are you kidding me? There's just so much truth and honesty in the Bible, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_03: 3:20

I'm really glad you looked that up because I think hearing that story many times, you're you're I have to say it, it's disgusting, right? It's like you see it, you hear it, like, and I don't want to mention there was a pastor that did something like that, and it was disgusting. And but I'm glad you I'm glad you researched it because you know, at first, you for us here at this modern day, you you don't understand a lot of things from the Old Testament or even the New Testament, right? Like how why those customs, why they do things the way they do it, and you're looking further into it and going, wait a minute, there's a reason for it. And it's just a reminder that we need to look further into what's happening rather than rather than seeing it at face value and going, that's disgusting, it doesn't make sense. He could just touch someone with his hand and his eye because he's Christ, but there's something that that's beyond just doing a miracle.

SPEAKER_01: 4:09

Yeah, and I would agree with that too. I mean, one of the things that I'm so fascinated with the Bible is is that it's it's not only literal, it's not only figurative, it's not only spiritual. Like it when the more you get to know the Bible, and this is a great example, I did not know that what you just said, David, until about 30 seconds ago, but it it just goes to show you that even the Bible in itself, it's telling you that it's practical in a physical capacity as well as a spiritual capacity. It's it's telling you that again, Javi, you said it really well. We we tend to look at this Bible and go, oh, that's weird, because we we can't process it through our daily today context. But when you but that doesn't mean it's not true, and that doesn't mean that it wasn't true 2,000 years ago. It doesn't mean any of those things. Like if you were to separate the contemporary life from our representation of it, like it's it's both. It's both secular and spiritual, it's both physical and spiritual, it's both personal and and communal. Like it's I don't know, I just find this really interesting. And that's one of the things that I've been researching a lot lately, is that. And so I I would even I would even take that a little bit a step further and say that like when when you told me we were gonna talk about blindness, I think there's two types of it, right? There's there's the intentional, willful, stubborn blindness. Like there's what I was when I started this conversation. Like, I I didn't want to see those things. I didn't, I didn't want to see it, I didn't want it to be true, and therefore I am so blind to it. I'm blind because I've closed my eyes. Yeah, I have closed my eyes, I've decided I don't want to see that, and that's the extent of that. But on the other hand, there is the non-willful. It's the it's just being oblivious, it's being, it's lacking context. Another sort of blindness is not having the experience or the framework or the wisdom to be able to understand what you're reading. And I think those are two very different types. And and I think even as we talk today, we're gonna talk about those different types. There's people who chose not to believe, and there's people who don't believe because they don't have they haven't gained the wisdom yet to be able to believe. And and and I and I think that that's what the Bible does for us, is like the Bible, I was both of those. I was both willfully ignorant or willfully opposing something. But then as I get in got into it and I started reading the Bible and following what the Bible was trying to tell me. And the Bible, by the way, isn't a guidebook that says do this and everything will be good. Do this and this is good. The Bible is a is a book that asks you to learn wisdom. It doesn't tell you how to answer your questions, it tells you how to earn wisdom so that you're able to answer questions with wisdom. So it's the second type of blindness I've been getting through, and I will probably continue getting through the rest of my life, is reading the Bible and learning how to be wise and how to make decisions that will give me the wisdom to be able to follow that Holy Spirit and be able to make good decisions when the Bible isn't clear on what I should do in a certain situation.

SPEAKER_00: 7:01

It's amazing because as I read the Bible, I feel like I become more unwise just because I understand less and less and how much God understands more and more, and and it really is an amazing journey. Um, actually, one of the things you mentioned is for different reasons. And sometimes blindness, people feel like it's purposeful, and and I agree, and we'll get there, but but first I think one of the ones that kind of bridges the gap for me is the one where you're being blind unintentionally and just not knowing. And Matthew 15, 16, and I'm gonna paraphrase here Jesus is looking at his apostles and pretty much saying, Why are you still not understanding? How do you still not understand this? Why are you still blind to my words? You've now seen the miracles, you've heard me preach, and you still don't understand what I'm saying. And it's a blindness that they're not purposely closing their eyes, they're actually hanging on as every word. They just can't understand it. And that's exactly what, like I said, the bridge is perfect because you talk about the Bible. I'm going, there are things that as much as I research, I don't understand, and I feel blind to it. And if I was honest, I feel like I'm I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. I have the belief and relationship with Christ, but I still read these words. I'm going, wait a minute, I don't understand what I just read.

SPEAKER_01: 8:15

Yeah. I mean, but but that's that is, I think that's the the intended purpose of the Bible. Like, I I don't think that's an accident. And I think anybody who's reading the Bible and thinks that they're going to read it the first time and get it and be solid and certain and stable and done, sadly, just doesn't understand the Bible or wasn't I they they haven't been taught about the Bible correctly, right? They the Bible isn't uh isn't a place of total 100% certainty. And anybody can tell you that by reading it this year and then reading it again next year, you're gonna get something out of it next year. You're and the year after that, you're gonna get something new out of it. And after that, you're gonna get something new out of it. And again, I think that's the intention of the Bible. I think it's not to it's not to give you all the answers. If it was a textbook, we'd all read it once, put it down, know what to do, and move on. Yep. But it doesn't tell you about how to deal with every situation in your life. I mean, it it it guides you towards how to answer situations in your life. But again, there's a difference between guiding you by saying, here's the step-by-step process for how to build this house, and here is a life's worth of carpentering experience to know why you should be doing this when you're building this house. Or and when you hit a corner you've never cut before, or you hit a uh a problem that you've never encountered before, use your wisdom to get through it, not that there's a literal step-by-step guide to get through that. And so, to your point, I think that that's what that's what the Bible is doing. And this is a certain type of blindness, it's telling you how to get over your own lack of understanding by learning how the Bible's telling you to get through it through wisdom. Yeah.

unknown: 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:46

I mean, Javi, I'm gonna ask you just because uh I know that with you, sometimes you have this amazing in a great way, in the best way possible, this faith of a child, where I'm envious of that sometimes. And you have the apostles who, you know, they're walking with Jesus, they're they're seeing the miracles, and yet they don't understand. And it's not as if they ever listen, they don't understand until Jesus comes back, resurrected, and then all of a sudden they get it. For for somebody that has blended well the faith of a child with the interest of apologetics, kind of talk to me a little bit about how you see yourself and the apostles, because I know we've talked about it a little bit before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 10:29

Um, I think if I was there walking with Jesus, I would definitely doubt a lot of things, right? I mean, I lived a life at a certain age that I've learned through experience, right? I also have grown certain customs and certain things that I'm already already have habitual things to, right? Like I to me, I've seen the priests the way they are, I see my faith, my family, I experienced life the way it was until the point of following Jesus, and then there's radical like change in life and how we perceive it. So yeah, I would be doubtful for for many things. And I think for me personally, walking into the faith for many years and not believing, I was very doubtful. I was very like really second-guessing everything. And I think until this day, I still remain skeptical to information that I receive. But you know, I also put my guard down. And I think when you guys were talking before, Jason, you were saying about your walk. I this thing kept coming up to me, and it's this veil really removed from my eyes. And once it removed from my eyes, and I started I started being opening, I started I was open to the fact of receiving truth or receiving what's being said, and just walking forth in faith in whatever I'm receiving, not being cynical, but being skeptical, looking into it. I started the you know, the the the one the doors started opening up for me. Like, oh, this makes sense, this means something. This, oh, it's beyond what I thought it was. And then to me, I just kind of built this faith of going, you know what, there's a lot of things that I would never know. Even what you're saying right now, David. You just said the more you read the Bible, the more you see that you don't you don't know, and you're far beyond I am like the knowledge that you know, like you're far beyond the things that I know. And if you feel that way, I know that I would not reach a certain level of understanding, and that's okay, and that's what the Bible talks about, right? Not lean on my own understanding, but lean on his. So to wrap everything up, what I'm saying is there's a level of I there's a level of humility that I have come accustomed to when it comes to my faith of knowledge and wisdom, and I leave it up to God, and that's the faith I have. But the Bible also is very practical. So I'm able to learn discipline, I'm able to learn certain things from the Bible that I'm able to walk forward in and walk forward in and be able to live life with faith.

SPEAKER_00: 12:59

What I love, and this is not, we didn't come to this step in our life only in this way, but there are three ways that blindness happens, the main points, not all the time, but the three main points is you have a hardened heart, you have a religion not relationship, and through pain. Yeah. And when I look at the three of us, literally, Jason talked about his hardened heart, you talked about religion without relationship. And for me, I know that it came from pain. And not that it's not, not that either of us haven't felt pain or other things as well. It's just it's interesting because even as I researched and I'm watching the three of us, it's exactly where our blindness came from. And, you know, the Bible, when you talk about it coming alive, right before our eyes, you guys are talking, and I'm like, I didn't even set this up this way. And it's just coming out that the three main ways of blindness are exactly us three.

SPEAKER_01: 13:55

And I and I think if you if you take a second, you can probably find that reflected in the miracles, right? Like Paul, Paul had the pain, Paul Saul had the pain, right? He went through some terrible stuff and he had to do some terrible stuff to feel regret about it and to feel sadness about it. I mean, so he's probably that. And then you and then you have the people who were I mean, for to a certain extent, you have these you have the man who was healed privately. Well, you have the you have the blind guy who was healed privately and the guy who was healed publicly. And and there there's I'm sure there's a reason behind that, but I mean there's I I think you're right that we have to be sometimes well, actually, this is a weird, a weird other point, too. And to be blind is to go into the dark, right? To go to be blind is to go into the dark, it's to be in a dark place. I mean, for what it's worth, I think even you would say that Noah, or not Noah, Jonah was blind for three days because he was in total darkness. And and the same thing in the Exodus story when they were doing the plagues, it was total darkness for three days. It's it may not be blindness per se, but it's a lack of ability to see. And in that darkness was when they were able to see the light. When they were in that dark space, they were able to recognize their maker, if you will, and recognize the power of God and light and good and and all those things. But you kind of have to be blind first. And whether it's the blindness you said before, whether you kind of screw yourself over by by by being a disbeliever and disavowing this, that, and the other, or whether you do it by by doubt, or whether you do it by pain, it it all it all results in the same thing, which is that you're in a dark place and you and you're seeking a way out.

SPEAKER_00: 15:24

Man, I love that. I I love that you just compared that to some of the old testament characters. And yeah, it is blindness, and it is. I think about when people are, and luckily I have not had blindness in in my in my circle of people, but I I hear that one when you're blind, your hearing gets more attuned and you know, your taste and things like that. And I think about that as well. And exactly what you said, blindness is necessary sometimes to get focused on something else. And when you're talking about spiritual blindness, I think about it, listen, in Acts 9, you brought up Paul. He was soul at the time and was struck with blindness. And on top of it, yes, he fasted for three days and and some other things, but it was in his blindness that he was able to start to see. And that's the part where he did have it from pain from he probably was all three. He was hardened. He was all three. He did have pain, and he also believed in religion and not the relationship. And it took blindness for him to become Paul and to learn that he had to switch the aggression and pain and all that for grace and love. And I love that you brought that to the Old Testament because I think a lot of times people separate the two and they go, Well, this is what happened before thousands of years ago, and this is what's happening now during Jesus' time, and they don't have anything to do with each other. But man, that is such a great way to blend the two.

SPEAKER_01: 17:32

Yeah. I mean, I and I love what Javi had to say too. I mean, I I I think the idea of religion without relationship is something that a lot of people either need to work on or are currently working on. Is like understanding that again, going back to the Bible for this, right? The the biggest thing that Jesus had to say that like always stands out to me is that what he did to the Pharisees. He's like, you guys have all the knowledge, you have all the information, you have all of the not you have all the the thinking and the scriptural information, but yet your heart is not anywhere near where it needs to be. And you're not seeing what's right in front of you. You're not seeing that the messiah is standing in front of you. In fact, you are killing the messiah because even though you have all reason to believe that he is, and and I think in our in our daily lives now, it's like I have this information, but am I living it? Am I I have this information, but is it changing me? I have the academia, but do I have the heart of sacrifice for others and the care for others the way that that Jesus does? And like that, that's it's it's next, next, next level blindness that we're talking about, but it's equally, I think in every level of your journey you have to compete with some level of blindness.

SPEAKER_03: 18:47

Yeah, I agree. I feel like sorry, no, no. I I feel like spiritual blindness, it's it's a heart issue, it's always a heart issue. It's uh I do not want to believe this because I do not want to change, I do not want to give into whatever this is calling me to do. And I think for me, that was very true. Leading into it, I didn't, I heard I had some friends that were Christian. I had some idea what Christian life is, and for me, I was I was ignoring it because I had an art heart issue. I didn't want to give up the things that I was so accustomed to. And um once I let my guards down and I go, you know what, I'm I'm looking for truth, I'm looking for more. I've I've done enough with what I know, and that's not enough. And I just wasn't I wasn't happy, I wasn't pleased where things were going, I think. And when I opened up to whatever truth it was, not only Christianity, that spoke the loudest to me. And as I continue to follow that thread, the the truth behind what the Bible means and what Christ did for us became so true to me. And to this day, the the the truth and finding evidence and finding how much more words of the Bible and the the evidence behind it, it means so much to me to try to look for it, and that's what I continue to search. That that pulls me and draws me further. But going back to what I said before, the humility of just really believing and having faith that I would not know everything gives me peace.

SPEAKER_01: 20:15

Because Javi, would would would you say when you say hard issue, one one of the things I that's one of those words that people would say a lot when I first got in the faith, and I was like, I don't know if I get that. Like I do. I mean, obviously if I work on it, I I get there. But like, would would you say, particularly in this case, that we're it's it's an ego issue? I would say, yeah, I think it's a control issue. Or sell or control.

SPEAKER_03: 20:37

I want to sell over something like that. Right. Yeah. I spoke about this today. I I was speaking to a man earlier, a neighbor, and it was it was exactly that. It's a control issue. And once we're us being human, made in the image of God, God give us wisdom, we we're able to build, we're able to move forward in life and provide in some ways, right? We're able to cultivate life and and and procreate and do those things. So for us, we have control. We know that we could move on without God or anything else, in a sense. And I think through that, why do I need anything higher or anything more? Because I'm able to control life as it is. But we fail to realize that the completion of who we are and what we made for our purpose is within God and us, the relationship, right?

SPEAKER_01: 21:25

It's also, and and to that point, Javi, look, I mean, uh I I'm 100% with you. I think there's I think there's a lot of control issues with us because we do think, at least on the micro, that we can control our own destinies or our own futures, right? Like I can make a choice right now to go do something really stupid and I'm gonna go to jail. Like I that's my control. I have something, I can I can also go out and like hand somebody a hundred bucks and change something else. But you God bless you. It's it's like this, it's this thing of feeling like we have control, but there also comes this time, and I go back to that darkness we talked about earlier, where you're gonna realize a limit to your own physical limitations. You're gonna realize a limit at some point to your own spiritual limitations or your own happiness limitations or joy limitations or even your your own impact limitations. Maybe that's what like, yeah, I can I can impact me at the micro. I might even be able to impact my my close family, but what am I worth beyond that? Like most humans don't have much, much worth beyond that. Not worth, worth is not the right word. We don't have much impact beyond that. But when when you realize that connecting with what the Bible is telling you is telling you that you're not the center of the universe and that other people are to be sacrificed on your behalf for them, and that your wisdom isn't enough. And if you continue to try and force your will, you're not gonna get anywhere. But if you open up to the will of God, if you open up to the will of what other people are doing, if you don't worry so much about yourself and you worry about more, all of a sudden that impact grows exponentially. And the and and your capacity expands exponentially, both physically and and spiritually. And so I don't I don't know. I think I think that heart issue thing, I think you're I think you're dead, dead, dead on the head there. I just want to like, I wanna like hone in because a lot of people who are like, okay, I'm reading it, I love it, I get it, but it's not making an impact in my life. And it's probably because you're still blind to the fact that you're trying to take the reins and drive the horse. Like I'm gonna actually it ain't your horse.

SPEAKER_00: 23:22

I'm gonna bring the heart issue even further in. I'll tell you what where me, this is a daily push and pull. And there are days where I feel like my eyesight is perfect, and there are days where my vision is not on God. And I think that a lot of times people feel like with the Bible, hey, when you got it, you got it, and that's it. And that's not that's not it. There's a there's a struggle that happens, and that's why I feel like there are days where my immaturity shows and I go, man, I miss the mark there. And I like you said, pride and humility, I can be humble enough to go, God, I missed the mark. And let me try to do better tomorrow. Not, hey, I've got it, or I have a heart issue and that's it. No, I think mine is every day I am fighting. I'm going, hey, today, I'm I'm pretty spiritually blind. I accepted things in my own name. I felt like I accomplished things by myself and I forgot to thank the one who did it. Um, and then there are days where I'm like, man, I'm on top of it and I'm, you know, really just showing the world that God has taken control over my life. And I just think that when it comes to blindness, same thing. We look at it as it's either permanent or it's fixed. But to me, I'm going, man, you know, I feel like every day I'm I'm blind and seeing at the same time and back and forth. And that's just what I've experienced with my own journey.

SPEAKER_01: 24:47

That used to be a big detractor for me, honestly. Like I would be like, well, I'm spiritually, I think Javi, again, Javi's Javi kind of nailed it on the head earlier. You called out his his childlike faith. And and I think even that's a bit of an oversimplification because Javi admits that he has doubt sometimes and he has concern sometimes and he has back and forth sometimes. What what makes the faith so strong isn't a unfailing action of doing it correctly every minute of every day. What he's doing correctly every minute of every single day is he's he's giving his consciousness to it. He's giving his intention to it, he's giving his, he's not letting it become secondary in his life, and he continues to go after it. And that's and we've had talks many times about what faith is, and that is what faith is. Faith is the intention to continue. And so when you're when your eyes are opened from this blindness, it you need to just hold them open every day. Like it's you, you don't, you don't get you don't become unblind and then all of a sudden you're blind, you're you're you're see forever. Like that's that's kind of and again, that's very heartening to me because what I what I used to experience as a child was like, oh, I heard all these people say that they're all like blessed and spiritual and they get it and they read the Bible and everything comes out of it, great. And I'm over here reading and and getting it, and then I turn around and yell at somebody, or I turn around and get mad at somebody, or I turn around and be selfish, or I gossip, or whatever that happens to be. I must not have that. I my eyes are open and they close again. Well, I must not, if if I keep doing that, I must be doing it wrong. Yeah. Or I must not be made for this. And I think it's just really important to have these open, honest dialogues and say, I don't know anybody who is a believer who doesn't struggle with the belief, who doesn't struggle with lack of understanding, who doesn't struggle with being able to execute being the person that they want to be after they read the Bible and say, this is who I want to be. I I think we we all struggle with that. It's it's not about the struggle, it's about are you continuing to struggle?

SPEAKER_02: 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:43

If you if you give up the struggle, which which is what I and I've said this publicly too. I mean, this is this is what happened to me. I I tried and I tried and I tried and I struggled. And then one day I gave up. I gave up the struggle. I'm like, well, I can't win, so I quit. That was the wrong turn. It wasn't the struggling wasn't the problem. The giving up the struggle was the problem. So I don't know. I just felt it like important to say that because I don't think enough people say that out loud. That that when you read and don't understand, it makes you feel like less of a Christian. When when you sit in a sermon that tells you how good you have to be and you turn around and you don't do any of those things the next day, you feel like, oh, what a loser I am, or I wasn't meant for this. Like that's just not that's not something we should be judging ourselves against.

SPEAKER_03: 27:23

You I'm glad you you're saying what you're saying. It actually just overwhelming for right now for me. I like it just might the spirit within me just maybe like put water in my. I would start it's hearing right now because it's it's what made a difference for me that letting go of that control, letting go of what I don't know to the things that I want to know. And I was I was thinking about Amazing Grace, right? The song, right? I was lost, but I was found. I was blind, but now I see. And that's such an amazing reveal, amazing, amazing like veil outside of your eyes, being able to see. And that it lifts up so many burdens for you, that burden that we carry within ourselves. I remember there was a story, there was let me tell you a story right quick. And we did our mission trip in Uganda and Africa, and we there was uh my wife was doing exception, exception, like people were doing like a medicine, let me say it again. We went on a mission trip to Uganda and Africa. My wife was part of uh a section that was handing out glasses for people that couldn't see, couldn't afford to go to the doctor and get glasses, but elders, right, that just haven't seen in such a long time or just they see blurry. And the moment she they gifted, she was given the glasses and they were able to see and they would see down, they were they were able to read the Bible, right? They would tear, they would cry. It's so amazing. And you guys just made me cry because for me it was like it was so amazing for me to get that veil release out of my eyes to really to see the truth and understand it that I have a God that died for me, that gave me a second chance in life, that actually said, I forgive you for what you've done and follow me, and I will make your path straight. And for me, that path is not easy, but knowing that he has forgiven me every single day, like you were saying, David, some days you do you're blind, some days you're not. You one one hour to another hour, you're blind, and you can see and it's and it's truth. But with the with the understanding, knowing that God forgave me and I could move forward going, I have faith. I could be that I have faith that he forgives me for even when I do wrong to move forward in life to do better.

SPEAKER_00: 29:35

It's amazing. Let me come full circle. We started off where we talked about how Jesus used something from the world at that time to heal somebody who is blind. And we might not understand it, but it's what they practiced back then. And God today, he uses the world. If you look throughout the Bible, if you look throughout history, God continues to use the modern world for correcting blindness. And Javi, your story right now, you're talking about the modern world of now, hey, we do have bifocals, we do have glasses, we do have a way to correct vision. So what does that mean? Well, it still means that there's going to be a missions trip to hand people glasses so they for the first time can read the word. And I just I love the fact that God continues to use the world around us to give us vision. And I am, I am always excited to see on my journey what what corrective action he will take on my life tomorrow from the modern world. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 30:33

Let me say, I gotta say this scripture because if we're wrapping up, John 8 12 says, I am the light of the world. This is Jesus talking. I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. Rest on that because Jesus is the light of the world, and we'll be able to take that veil, he's able to take that veil from us and not walk in darkness anymore. And we can rest assured with the things that we don't know, even the things that we do know, we can still rest assured that we're made we're made new in Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_01: 31:10

So what we've learned today is blessed are the ophthalmologists and blessed are those with LACI. Uh we are we are making sure to give to give all credit where credit's due, of course. That's true. Um that's true. No, look, guys, I mean this this is this is powerful stuff. I mean, the blindness, blindness is something we all go through, right? We we we have had it at one point in our lives. We unfortunately continue to have it every day. It's the nature of who we are, and we we are called to intentionally be conscious to open our eyes every day to what's being taught. So I appreciate this. David, your your info on how they healed back in the day is going to that's gonna bounce around my head, and I'm gonna go search for other examples for sure right after this. But guys, always, always fun, always revealing, always informational, and always heart opening. So thank you for the info. Thank you for listening to those who have listened. As always, we love hearing from you. Please let us know if you have any questions, any thoughts, any comments, concerns, beliefs, feelings, you name it. Just let us know all the stuff. And we'd be happy to talk to you soon. So we appreciate your time and we'll talk to you again next week. Thank you very much. Bye. Bye. Later.