Welcome And Verse From Acts 9:31

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway.

What Is Fear? Personal Stories

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Gonna start off today with a verse from the Bible, Acts 9.31, and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit. Fear, what's the real battle? What is scripture actually saying about fear? I'm curious to see what you guys think. What what does fear mean to you? I know to me what it means.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Yeah, for me, fear is being afraid of things. It's the word that kept coming up was cripp is crippling. Like it just it really really it stops me. It kind of makes me come to a halt and it makes me cripple. It's just psychological. So um it's just really psyching myself out. I don't watch scary movies anymore, so there's no more fear in me. I'm joking. Growing up, man, it was so tough. Some of the stuff that I was scared of. My backyard was a cemetery, so uh that was kind of scary. But when it comes to fear these days, it's more psychological stuff that I can't overcome.

Fear As The Root Of Other Emotions

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah. I think fear is such an interesting emotion because fear is oftentimes the heart of so many other emotions, as I as I find. Like I was going through some stuff a couple weeks ago and and I was talking to a pastor friend, and I said, you know, when I when I go through this, I start to feel distant from God. When I start going through a lot of stuff, and I feel I feel distant from God and I feel I don't feel like myself and I don't feel connected to these things. And then as I was saying it, I said, you know, I'm going through these things, and I and I'm I end up becoming, you know, uh afraid that I'm not going to be able to. And I'm afraid that I'm not going to be able to do that. And I realized that the word fear came up a few times. And I was like, yeah, you know what? Fear is the root of anger a lot of times. Fear's the root of fear's an emotion that tends to make you avoid things. Fear can be scared, but fear can also manifest in just like I don't know, this weird way of like, I don't feel comfortable. Like there's so many manifestations of fear. And I think fear is like at the heart of so much, so many things. But then, and I'm sure we'll get to this later, but then there's also this thing where, you know, God, God doesn't want you to be afraid. He wants you to, you know, have confidence in him and trust in him and faith in him and know that we're not enough, but he is. And if we follow that, it's great. But then he says, you know, have a reverent fear of the Lord. And so I think that's what I'm I'm interested to talk about today is like, you know, what does the Bible say about fear? What are we supposed to do in those situations? But also what does it mean to fear the Lord?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

So one of the things that you just said, which is interesting, is fear. You're talking about fear a lot. Fear

Destructive Fear Versus Protective Fear

SPEAKER_00 2:46

is the most common human experience in life. So there are people who've never experienced love. There are people who never experience certain things in their life, but fear, they say, is the most common human experience. And I believe it. And Javi, when you were talking about fear, like that destructive fear in my mind, it's the one that leads to what you were talking about, Jason. It leads to the anger and leads to those things. And I do believe that, yes, the Bible's very clear that that's not the fear that God wants. So I'm excited to jump into it. Before we do, why don't we just stay on kind of that destructive fear? And this is also something that I read 85 to 90 percent of somebody's fear never comes true. It it is it's a staggering number to be afraid of something that 85 to 90 percent will never actually come true. And to have practical knowledge like that and it not help one bit when I'm afraid of something is that in itself is something that I don't quite understand.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I mean, well, let's let's pick it apart too. I mean, I think we we need some like early definitions. Like there's fear, there's fear that's terror. Like if you're afraid of spiders or you're afraid of clowns or whatever people are afraid of, you know, if you're afraid of those things, that's a physical visceral fear. But then there's the much more psychological complications of fear.

Definitions: Terror, Insecurity, Obedience

SPEAKER_01 4:08

There's fear of not being good enough, right? Which is probably the root of a million problems in the universe. But, you know, it's fear of not being good enough, fear of not being able to reach your full potential. Oftentimes I find that people at high levels are actually afraid of reaching their potential. Like I think there's a fear, like, and and what is that fear from? A lot of times that fear is from a lack of knowledge, right? Like I don't know if I'm able. I don't fear, a fear of the unknown. Maybe that's another one that's kind of there. It's the fear of the unknown. Like I know what what do they call it? You know, the the devil you know. Like I know that I should probably leave this situation, but I fear what would happen if it got better. How would I deal with that? Well, I would feel if it got worse. I would, I would regret if so. There's these the fear just has all these different manifestations, all these different like angles. And so I think it's important. Like, I don't think in this one we're talking about spiders and visceral fear. I think, I think we are biological creatures who should be afraid of stuff. Like if there's a tiger in your room, fear's a very natural, you know, uh thing. You know, if there's if there's a person with a knife, you know, even if they're not scary and they're just holding a knife, should I be, you know, cautious of that person who has a knife and what they're doing and where they're walking and if they're talking like this while they're while they're doing that knife? Yeah, I mean that's that's a kind of fear that's that's valuable, it's a valid fear. What I'm I think what we're talking about here is is that psychological fear. And, you know, I think this is what God doesn't want us to to have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

They categorize it in two main things, and I think obviously there's a lot more than it, but one is that fear based on the terror faced uh is based on insecurity, and then the fear that God wants us to have, which is based on obedience. And I think that when you talk about the insecurity side of things to bridge a gap, yes, if you're afraid of something that is going to harm you, that's a protective nature in you. I don't necessarily qualify that as definitely the fear we're not talking about today. But yes,

Relationship With God As The Antidote

SPEAKER_00 6:07

if I think we're talking about a fear to bridge that gap, there are times when fear is made to actually push us towards God. And when we have the insecurities in us, we can bridge that to go, hey, I don't feel enough. And this is pushing me towards God. And unfortunately, sometimes the fear pushes people away from God. And I think once we start to define it a little bit, you'll start to see where you play in that and why. Um, because it's a very when I think about fear, Adam uh hid because of fear, and Moses rejected his calling in the beginning because of fear, and Abraham lied because of fear, Peter sank because of fear. Fear is all within the Bible, so I don't think it's something where we have to go, yeah, hey, I shouldn't have this kind of fear, but when they bridged it to God, they were able to use it for something. So I'm I'm definitely right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Yeah, there's there's there's chapters on fear. There's Isaiah 41, is most of it is about fear. Psalm 56 is about trusting the Lord through the fear. When I think about fear, one of the challenges that I deal with myself, you know, this especially this year, you know, going into like I said this before in the podcast, going into this podcast, I was scared of like, you know, to even go about it. But when I think about fear, there is a there is a control aspect of it, right? Like that we want to control the outcome of things. So I'm I'm fearful to go through it because the outcome is not gonna come out the way it is. And then there's other part of it, I think, that that God plays in that. It's like, well, I want you to walk through it. And if the outcome is not what you want, and it's gonna be through persecution, it's gonna be through hurt, I'm gonna be with you through that fear and give you strength, give you power. You talked about the spirit, you know, the Timothy 1.7 says, God gives us a spirit, not of fear, but of power. And I think if we could hold on to it, we could walk through fear with the power, knowing that we'd be able to come out the other side. And maybe not the outcome we want, but a better outcome that we deserve or God wants for us.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I heard a really good quote once. It said that the solution to fear is not courage, it's relationship. And I think sometimes

Reverent Fear Explained With Driving Analogy

SPEAKER_00 8:20

what happens is because we are afraid, and I know, listen, Jason's gonna smile at this because I know him already, but when you have something going on in your brain and you're like, hey, I'm afraid of something, the last thing that's gonna help me stop being afraid is my own brain that's getting me afraid. So then I'm just gonna be in this huge cycle vortex of fear and why I should be afraid or why I shouldn't be afraid, and trying to be courageous, and then it just it absolutely destroys me. But then in relationship, particularly with the Lord, but in relationship in general, listen, the three of us can be afraid of something, have intense fear, have this conversation. As Javi, you just mentioned, and you were afraid to start this podcast, and then you go, because of the relationship, I'm gonna take a step, and it's not a step of courage, it's a step of relationship. It makes sense to the world. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

To me, the greater good was more it was like higher and more important than my own fear of not doing it, this podcast, right? And I think sometimes it could that that's what it could be, right? Like if I don't walk through this, or recently I was talking to my wife, right? And she's like fearing certain situations, certain things that's about to happen in her life and and stuff like that. And for me, it was like some of the stuff that you're putting in your head that you're fearing, is that even true? Yeah, is that true what you're going through or what you think might happen, or is it true of what the circumstances saying about you? And a lot of times it's not like what you were saying, like 85% of what we were about didn't even come true. So that encouragement of like, well, let's walk through this fear, because on the other end, we could see that those are lies and God's truth, it will prevail.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah. I mean, you know, this whole thing, uh, David, I love the idea that you have to, you know, it's not about you because you get stuck in your own head. I think this is almost the basis of Christianity alone. And we've we've talked about this quite even more recently, we've been talking about micro and macro. And on the micro, I can't get myself out of it because I live in this tiny little space between my ears that spins around in circles on itself. And if there's not any outside infra interference from that inside space, it's just gonna keep swirling. Like it doesn't, it doesn't move anywhere. And so when I'm able to say, okay, swirling little tiny space, you're not

Fear Of The Lord And Wisdom

SPEAKER_01 10:35

enough. Look out at the at the bigger universe, look out at the macro, look out at that. Have some stop being so afraid of me and start being trusting of the world. Start being trusting of other people, start being trusting of God Himself and all this, and and all that he knows and has to know and is telling you the space is not healthy. This this internal space is not healthy. You need to move to an outside space, and you can't do it yourself. You have to do it through God. And so one of the like one of the things I was thinking the other day about fear of God, particularly, is what does it mean to be afraid of God? Does it mean that I should be afraid he's gonna strike me down? Does it mean I should be afraid that he's going to hurt me? And then I was, and I and I was ironically, I was thinking this as I was driving, and I was like, driving is so dangerous, but I love it. And I love doing it, and I was like, wait a second, I have a you should have a healthy fear of driving, right? Like it you should have a healthy fear of it. You should say, look, there are big consequences that can happen while I'm driving. And if I'm not careful, some really terrible stuff can happen. But I'm not afraid of driving. I just have a reverence, I have an understanding of how powerful that car is and how powerful a collision could be, right? And so when I start to see that and I start to see, I start to think, okay, it's not really like it's not fear, it's respect. It's a respect for the power of. And at the same time that I'm very respectful of the danger that a car that, sorry, the the power that a car has to do damage, I also understand that that same power is beneficial. And that same power can help people get from one place to another so that they can, you know, do things more, more productively. And so I've lately I've been thinking of fear of God as respect, reverence, of an an understanding of the true power and glory and grandeur of it

Humility, Obedience, And Trust

SPEAKER_01 12:24

and my need to embrace that, just as much as I embrace getting in a car every day and taking my son to school and going to drive to the beach and hanging out, and like the car allows me to do that. But it but I also have to know that that same car that does those great things, you know, if not respected, can have negative consequences.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Yeah. What when you think when you first thing about fear, you think about anxiety or you know, distress, worry, right? When we talk about fear of God, it's exactly what you're saying, Jason. I think there's a respect, a deep respect, right? There's deep power and there's an awe, or exactly what you're saying, of God, right? Proverbs 1:7 also says this the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. So when we also fear God is the beginning of knowledge, we we'd be able to understand and recognize that the wisdom of what he has, that he is the greatest, is bigger than ours. Exactly. And that's where the fear is. It's not this I'm shaking and you know in my boots because a God is gonna strike me. He could and he would and he has, but you know, through the wrong, the wrongdoings of some of these people in the Bible, but this grand thing of God. And and once we recognize that, that's the beginning of Naj and we can move forward in life and making decisions and doing certain things with that first knowing that having fear of God. Does that make sense? And to back and back to yeah, and back to David's point.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Like when I have the reverence and fear of God, and I know that God is all-powerful and gigantic and awe-inspiring and grand and glorious and all those things, if I'm really focused on that, I really I start to realize how little everything else is. Yeah. And how less important everything else is, and how less grand and less awe-inspiring. And like, there's there's no person in this world who is awe-inspiring to me. So there's no, so

Using Fear And Desire To Grow

SPEAKER_01 14:18

therefore, there's no human being who should ever be able to tell me what to do or that I should ever follow more than I should follow God. Because that's the one who who gets my attention. That's the one I have the reverence for. And so it's it's this really interesting dichotomy of like, yeah, you have the world and the world you're afraid of, but you shouldn't be afraid of that. Those aren't the things that are going to those aren't the things you should have fear of or reverence of or you know, worry about. You should be worried about what is God telling me to do? What would what what would Jesus do? And am I doing what would Jesus do? Am I living in a life that's that's consistent with that and showing my respect and awe for that side rather than showing my respect and attention to Javi?

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yeah, it goes back to the episode with we had with Pastor Dan. He mentions, and I love this quote because I continue to try to live it out is take God more seriously and take yourself less seriously. Take yourself less seriously.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

The rest of that uh verse that you quoted, fools despise wisdom and instruction. And it's one of the things where listen, we don't know what we don't know. And when you say fear is the beginning of wisdom, of knowledge, you start to go, okay, it's not that God says I want you to be the Lord. I'm sorry, yeah. Oh, yeah, I don't think that God is saying you need to be afraid to start wisdom. I think what he's saying is that is you need to admit you don't know what you don't know, and it's just a great way to really look at what God wants for us, and he's not saying I want you to be in fear. Although, listen, no, there is a part of reverence, and it reminded me of when you said, Hey, with this podcast, you were like, Hey, if something was bigger than me, I wanted to go there. Not that I compare myself to God, but I can be an irritating soul, and you saying no to me wasn't an option. So you almost was like, I fear doing the show less than I fear David every day coming and saying, What about now? What about now? There's a part of God that goes,

Healthy Fear In Love, Marriage, And Faith

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I want you to fear me and not the world. I want if you're gonna use up your fear, use it on me, and don't use it on these things, I'm not enough, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, the fear of the physical world, things like that. I think he's purposely showing us that listen, if I trust God today, I don't need to fear my imagination tomorrow. And that's what he's that's that's what he wants.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I agree. And I mean, I think that's why we do episodes like this, right? Like we grow up in church, or or some of us, you know, get into church later, but and we hear, you know, fear of God. And it's like, yeah, fear of God. But then you sit down and you're like, but wait, what? Why, what does that mean? And like, I don't know if it's a derogatory term or not, but to you know, to say that there's there's Christianese within the church. Like there's there's these words that we use. And so if that's offensive, I don't know if it is and I'm if it's offensive to anybody, I'm sorry. But there there are things that are said in the church and they are just expected to be understood right at face value. And and yet they're not face value concepts, you know, especially to somebody who who isn't familiar with the jargon and isn't familiar with the with the terminologies. And so I think that's why we're doing this. I mean, and it and it makes things so clear, and I love that we can have these conversations and start to see the clarity of it. Like, you know, we're talking about the the fools dismiss wisdom. You tell me somebody who has lived a mostly mostly atheistic life and tried to find happiness or comfort or peace in themselves and in the world, and I promise you that that's the fool, that's the fool part of the part of that verse. And then somebody who has matured to realize that they aren't enough and they are humble enough to say, you know what, I have tried to manipulate my life and look where I ended up. And I might even end up pretty well, but like I'm I'm I don't have family, I

Closing Reflections And Encouragement

SPEAKER_01 18:00

don't have friends, I don't have peace, I don't have, you know, health, well, any number of things that they might not have because they didn't follow, you know, what what is what would Jesus do? I'm gonna throw in a lot of what would Jesus do around the day, but it's the easiest way to understand the concept. And you know, these are the people who have found the wisdom. These are the people who have found the wisdom, and these are the people who are who are living out the first part of the person.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

This is reverence and awe. That's what it should lead to. If God is reverent and I'm an awed Him, then I should be obedient to what He says, not because I'm afraid He's gonna strike me down, but because He Because I know I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Because I know See, I I even want to I don't know if that's where you're gonna go, but that's where I go. So sorry I cut you off, but that that's where I go. It's not because of any other reason than the fact that I know that I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

That's exactly where it's the humility of that's where I was going. Was that that's the humility part of going, this is God's world, he created it, I don't know, and it's okay. So my reverence in him and my fear is um, but the way I started off, the first verse that I quoted today was having this fear of the Lord.

unknown 19:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Can you read that one again? Acts 9 31, and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit. And it is listen, I think about a father who, you know, again, a son is about to stick something metal into uh a power outlet, and the father is scaring him, and then afterwards is gonna hug him and go, listen, I'm sorry I had to scare you, but we can't do that. And then you have the Holy Spirit who's giving that comfort afterwards, is saying, Listen, this is about you need to be reverent for that power box, it's gonna give you a shock. So it's healthy fear is I think good. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

I think I it makes me think about people that maybe don't believe in God and go, Why would you want to follow a God that you have to fear? Right. And and he wants to treat you a certain way and you have to like reverence him. He's like he's like some kind of king or something. And I think there's there's that perspective of what we're just highlighted, and I it's the reverence of God and understanding, and which prop Proverbs 1 7 is so good to explain all this. Why we want to follow God that we have to fear, it's because the beginning of knowledge, if you don't know anything, this is one thing you should know is fear God. From there on, you could apply yourself with wisdom, you know, and I think that's a good way to go about it. Once we understand that, fearing fearing God is it's a good thing, it's a it's a thing to align us to to life and how to approach life and circumstances because he's there for us, he would guide us. Isaiah 4 41, 10 says, Fear not, for I am with you. Be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. And I think there's a level of comfort because he knows we will fear things, we will go about this life and and and hit these walls, these chains that would be holding us back from wanting to go about it. But he reminds us that hey, you're gonna fear things, but I'm with you. I'm gonna be there by your side, I'm gonna help you through it. And there's a piece in that too, and fearing fearing him, but also going through fear with him.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

We talked about fear being one of the most common human experiences. And there's this really great sermon that I heard. Mark Middleberg, who is an evangelist, talks about the fear of that people have going out and evangelizing. And what he talks about is it's going on an adventure. And anybody who starts skiing, you're not jumping on the black diamond the first time ever. You're going on the little bunny slope and you're building into it. And we've talked about this before in episodes. God is not looking for us to jump in with everything, it's little steps. When we look at Moses in the desert, he's taking little steps of trust. Trust me a little bit more, trust me a little bit more. Shed some of your fear. Oh, you have fear of this, shed some of that and do this instead. And Jason, I think you're right. With this being such a huge human experience, atheists and believers alike are going to fear things in their life. I would much rather fear God. So, Javi, you say, why should we fear God if we're believing in this? I would much rather fear God because I'm gonna fear something anyway and get the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Very fair. I'm going, I'm going to be afraid no matter what. I might as well pick the right thing to be afraid of, right? I mean, look, I man, I sometimes I wish I could bottle an emotion and just like hand it to people because if anybody knew what it felt like, like you just said, I can I have I get to choose what to fear in life. For so many years, I feared the world. I feared myself, I feared my own feelings or feared, feared all these things. And it doesn't lead you to a good place because you're you're fearing the wrong thing. And when you what you fear, you chase. And so when you're chasing those things, there's just nothing. There's nothing at the end of that road. And I just don't know how to explain that to people. There's just nothing at the end of that road. There's there's a dead end in a cult de sac with the lights off and no one's home. And you go, Where did I just spend all my time chasing? There's nothing here. And so when when you change and you go, you know what, I'm actually way more afraid of the Lord. I'm way, way more afraid of not pleasing him. I'm way more afraid of not living a life that is obedient and that glorifies. I'm way more afraid of being 85 years old, laying in my deathbed, and saying, I lived a life that chased stupidities, or as Proverbs says, vanities, right? I'm I'm afraid of having chased vanities and not chased anything real. And when you change the what you fear and what you chase, totally different ballgame. And and and to go back to your, sorry, I'm on another rant now, but Javi, when when when you talked about why would atheists want you to chase something that makes you be obedient, like because it's not asked, it's not making you obedient, it's giving you the opportunity to be obedient. Because at the end of that obedience is betterment. At the end of that obedience is self-discipline. At the end of those things is a better version of you doing better versions of you in a world that's better off because of you. And that's what obedience, I mean, you don't go to a coach so that you can so they can tell you a bunch of stuff to do and you don't do it. Right? If you go to a coach and they tell you a bunch of stuff and you don't do it and you're not being obedient, there's no there's no gain in that. There's no gain in listening but not doing. And however, when you go to a coach and they tell you what to do and you're you're obedient to that coach, the the things get better. And God is exactly the same way. Like you can't have a better life, you can't be a better version of yourself, you can't be a better husband, worker, uh, father. You can't be another thing unless you are obedient to these lessons because these lessons are infinite.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Going through that struggle for me, I hate it. I don't want to go through that struggle. That that hurts me, right? It's well, you don't want to be obedient. It's weird. I'm putting myself out there, you know. But that's where you persevere through. You know, I I have things that I fear and I've gone through it, and I I love going through it. You know, I would I persevered through it. Now I know through the pains, I know how to go around it, I know how to give that back and help somebody else that's going through it to help them out through it. So I think there's still levels of like, I don't want to go through it. This is gonna hurt me. I don't want to out, you know, I'm putting myself out there, I'm gonna get embarrassed, people are gonna, you know, put myself in, you know, they're gonna ridicule me or something, you know, persecution or whatever, or even going out to evangelize. People are gonna turn me down and you know, do I even know enough to evangelize, you know, of the Bible and and God? So there's there's that level I think where people get stuck at, like I said, crippling. It just cripples you and you get stuck.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

You know, I was just thinking about it, Jason, when you said this, and the perspective is there are two types of fear I'm thinking of right now, which is I'm afraid I'm not gonna be a great husband to my wife, and I don't do things I should be doing as a husband, or I'm afraid that if I don't do these things for my wife who I love, I'm going to lose her, and then I'm motivated and to be obedient. Perfect. And I think about that with God, and it really is the same thing is yes, I could either be afraid that I don't live up to him and then I don't do anything to move the needle forward, or I have this reverent fear of God, which is what we're called to do, to go, he is important. That's what that fear is. He's important to me. I'm afraid that I'm going to disappoint the creator of the world. So I'm going to do things like pray, read my scriptures, learn about him, have a relationship with him. It really once you said that, it just something just clicked in my brain, and I'm going, that that's it. That's where that fear is. It's this wonderful, healthy fear of I want to be and do better for you.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah. There there's a there's a psychological concept, and I it might even be like a sociological concept, but it it's it it it almost makes people feel a little like silly because you can basically run an entire world based on two things, desire and fear. Like that's it. Every single decision in life is made based on desire or fear. Everything that you do in life, desire or fear. Do I want this more or do I fear that more? And to your to your to your point there, and to the point that we're talking about all of it, like there's gonna be fear in everything, but there's also a desire. And so I told you before, like I the idea of me being 85 years old, 90 years old, laying in bed, and and the way the direction I was going before, and thinking, I don't want to lay in that bed and and look back at my life and go, I did nothing, or I did nothing with any obedience, or I did nothing with all these things. The fear of that, the fear of that made me desire more the the choices that could be made well, the choices that could be made in a godly way, the choices that could be, and so it it's almost that simple. It's almost that simple. Like you can you can use your fear to drive your desire, and you can use your desire to push you away from fear. Like you can, these two little simple facts. I mean, it's just it's just magnetization, right? It's it's magnetization, it's it's the pull and push. And so I think if if like starting to wrap this up, I think that you know the fear of the fear of God is meant to be is meant to drive you towards God. Like I'm afraid, it's not that I'm afraid of God, it's I'm afraid what happens if I don't reach him.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

It's it's what I'm afraid is gonna happen if I don't obey him. But not because he's going to hit me with a switch, but because I'm afraid of what I'm gonna become. I'm afraid of what I'm gonna become if I don't follow him. And the world, on the other hand, you know, f makes you afraid that you're not gonna become anything. But if you if you fear the world, then you're just gonna chase it more and you're gonna find something you don't want to violate.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

I also think that you know there's but could be blessings in that obedience on the other side of it. That's a good thing. You know, that's a great thing, following the Lord. Yeah, so to me, Jason, you're like you're hyping me up what you're saying because it's true. Like, if I do walk in obedience with the Lord, there could be also blessings there that I could be a better man. I could I, you know, God's gonna shape me to through this through this circumstance that I'm fearing.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Well, you're guaranteed you're guaranteed to be a better man because I can tell you what happens when you follow the world, and nothing better of you is gonna come out of it. So you're guaranteed to be a better person. You may not be, you may not be the you know, the the king of you know your own country, but you are you are going to become a better version of yourself when you follow through God. Simply.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

It just reminds me real quick of uh it has nothing to do with with this conversation, but it reminded me in the movie The Bronx Tale, he asks Sonny and he says, Would you rather be feared or loved? And I realize that God has both of mine. I fear and love God, and it's a wonderful thing. If you make it feel afraid in a negative way, it really is intertwined with my love with of him. So it really is it's both answers for me. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Amen. And I'm glad I could hype you up, Javi. I'm I feel like I'm the flavor flav of evangelism. That's what I'm here for. Yo yo. All right, guys, this was. This this went in directions I didn't expect. And I appreciate that. That's why we that's why we do this. So thanks for giving me an end of the week. Actually, you guys hyped me up today, so thanks. Thanks for flavor flavoring me. And to all of you who are listening, we appreciate you. We hope that we sparked something in you as well. These conversations are so valuable, especially because these concepts are so deep, and yet we don't always get a chance to talk about them and figure out how deep they really are. So hope this was able to stir something inside you guys. And we will talk to you again next week. Thanks for your time and have a good one. Later.