SPEAKER_01: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Hobby Marc Heads. And I'm Jason Holloway. You guys might know his name as Peter or Simon Peter, but this is a man who showed faith from the time he first met Jesus while fishing, to a man who was called the rock, to someone who stepped out of a boat and walked on water, to someone who then refused to know Jesus three different times. This is the story of Peter that you might have heard or might not have heard, but it is definitely a story of faith in Jesus in all different ways. So I'm excited to talk about Peter today. Amen.

SPEAKER_03: 0:42

Yeah. Look, Peter is one of the most interesting characters to me because he's probably the most relatable. And we'll talk about his stories and what he's done, but he he has his ups, he has his downs, he has his ups again, he has more downs. He's he seems, by all accounts, that I when I read it, I feel like he's the closest sometimes to Jesus. Like it's the one that we're like Jesus says the most harsh stuff to him, like very particularly to him. And we'll talk about these things, but I mean that that's a sign of closeness. And I don't mean that in a in in any other way that should say like he was comfortable enough to say, get behind me, Satan. You know, things like things like that. I mean, so so I I really relate with Peter, or I I relate to Peter because I think we all know what it's like to have ups and downs and ups and downs again.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30

Some would say he was like a pebble in Jesus' shoes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35

Pebble in Jesus' shoe. No, that's bad. Okay. I mean, look, he was he was he was he was the rock. He was the rock. But he was he definitely was the one who he's isn't he the most noted of the disciples in all the books?

SPEAKER_01: 1:52

I I have to imagine. I I haven't done the research on that, but I can't imagine he wouldn't have been the the most I definitely think he's the most recognizable. I think whenever I've talked to people, they typically hear of Peter the rock and and or and this is a uh cliffhanger for now, was he truly the rock? We're gonna we're we're gonna talk about it. But I will tell you I think I know where you're gonna go with that.

SPEAKER_03: 2:15

I think I know where you're gonna go with that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:16

I'm gonna hold the but but I will say that from the moment he met Jesus, and this is something that always amazes me because uh we talk about the moment where Jesus said he was fishing all night, and Jesus said, Hey, throw your net on the other side of the boat. But even before that, I think about many years ago, I had a really ugly convertible sunfire. And it was old and it was ugly, but I loved it. It was my car, and I used to drive around all the time. And I think about that. I'm going, if I was driving all night and I went back home and there was a man standing there who said, Hey, let me get in your car, drive a little bit more. Yeah, I know, there's no way. And here, Peter's literally fishing, and before Jesus tells him to cast his net on the other side, he's being a crowd is surrounding Jesus. Jesus steps into his boat without him knowing him and says, pull off a little bit. And Peter does it. He has the faith to pull off while this stranger is in his boat. And that's the first time where I go, okay, there is faith this man has that I just can't match.

SPEAKER_03: 3:24

Yeah. Yeah. This is the unrelatable part of Peter. Because yeah, I would I'd be in the same boat. Well, no pun intended. I would, I would have said, I would have said, no, no, thanks. There's a boat over there. Go ask that guy. Nope.

SPEAKER_02: 3:37

It makes sense. I mean, he they were fishing all night. So he's like, you know what? Sure, man. Like I could use any kind of advice right now or anything, I would just do it. They were really all night just trying to fish, trying to get this is how they made their living, right, David? Like, not only that, they this is how they feed themselves.

SPEAKER_01: 3:54

But even that to me is shocking because if I'm the expert, I'm the fisherman, I'm doing it all night, I know how to do this. I've been fishing my whole life, I'm not catching anything. And then some stranger who I is a rabbi who's not a fisherman steps into my boat and forget about now, he's already pulled off, he comes back and then says, toss your net on the other side. My reaction is, you don't know what you're talking about. You're a rabbi, I'm a fisherman, there's nothing there. But again, Peter in faith just does it. And because of faith, has an enormous amount of fish that's pulling the boat down into the water, filling his nets. It is, man, I mean, obviously, with great faith comes some really great things that can happen in your life. But even going further, it's like, hey, I've been fishing all night. You're right, Javi. This is to feed my family. I'm a lifetime fisherman. This is more fish I've ever caught in my whole life. And then that same guy goes, now leave them all and come with me. Yeah. I I just caught the greatest catch ever. And you know, and and you're gonna tell me just leave it and come with you. I'm telling you, from the moment they met, the faith that pours out of Peter is just unparalleled. Incredible.

SPEAKER_02: 5:11

Well, that's that's what I love about the Bible and just kind of Jesus period, like his walk, right? I think it says a lot about both. It shows Peter's faith to trust this man to do that, and then to go, all right, I just caught all these fishes. I want to know more about you. I'm gonna follow you because you told me to follow you. And it shows Jesus' like timing. I feel like his timing was he didn't get him before he went out, he got him after he came from all day from fishing and going, well, his enthusiasm was probably low, right? He's hit a wall and going, you know what, I'll take anything right now to feed my family, to get some money or whatever it is, because because of the fishing. And he goes, you know what? I'll try it. Fine. And Jesus goes, All right, I'm gonna catch you at this time. Go ahead, do it now. Look, look what it is now. Now come and follow me. He didn't go, hey, come over here, let's have some bread, let's think about this, let's talk about, let me run down this sales pitch to you. He said, Come and follow me. You know, the I am who I say I am, kind of thing. And Jesus probably Peter saw something in him and going, you know what? I'm gonna follow you, I'm gonna try this. And I think we see that a lot in Peter, right? That that no, no, no, and then it's like, okay, fine. And then it's like tremendous faith.

SPEAKER_03: 6:18

I'm really glad you say that because that's that's the thing that I see in Peter most is I see that I see that he had to look, he sh he did his thing all night. He was a master fisherman and he couldn't catch the fish. And so he had this moment of, I'm not enough. Like, eat no matter how much I know, no matter how much I feel I know, no matter how much expertise I have, clearly, look, I have nothing to feed my family. I have nothing to, if the chosen is right, I have nothing to pay off my debts, right? You know, I have none of these things. I'm at a I'm at a low place. And then Jesus comes and says, Well, look at this, I'm gonna show you how to do this. I don't even know what I'm doing. Or I mean it clearly I know everything I'm doing, but you don't think I do. But yet you don't need to understand me in order to get the blessing. All you need to do is be obedient. And so now maybe we should talk later about actually, as I said it out loud, faith is obedience, right? He could have been, he could have been faithful without being obedient, but he this time he was obedient. He said, Go out there. This is what I'm telling you to do. Go out there and there will be a reward to be reaped. And he goes, Okay. And he goes and he reaps. And so, like, that's the beginning. Like, uh David, you see it as faith, and I don't disagree with you as being faith, but I think it's even more so it's obedience, and then it's being able to, and here's the second part of it when you're obedient and you reap the reward, do you give God the credit? Or did Peter go out the next day and go, dude, I know the best fishing spot? No. Yeah, right? Like he could have. And and if we're being really honest, most of us would do that. We would go, God, I really need a blessing, my financial future, I need this thing. And then you're some new client comes in, you're like, man, I nailed it. Like, yeah, no, that's just not the way that that's not the way that works. Like, you know what I mean? And so I think that's what the beginning of Peter's story is. It's not about, I remember being redundant now, but I mean, I think that's what the story is about. It's about obedience, and it's about being able to acknowledge that which God gives you as being God given and not as being earned or you know or accepted by the people.

SPEAKER_01: 8:20

And as he pulls all these fish, you know, how you pointed out that you know, this is now Jesus is offering him the next step, and he's not just having lunch with him on the beach to think about it. What he's saying is, look what I just did with all these fish. Let me make you a fisher of men, which is kind of foreshadowing that you're not gonna catch one man in this net. I'm gonna teach you how to catch this abundance of people with my message, which is also really cool that he's he's you know, it's it's it's a promise of what he's gonna do with with Simon at this point. It's not Peter yet, uh, but with with Simon at this point. And I mean, if you guys don't mind, we'll fast forward to kind of the next big moment. And this is that moment where you have the storm going on, and you know, and and everybody's terrified, and Jesus is out in the water, and Simon Peter decides he is going to step out of the boat, which again is just when I think of it, and the I do equate it with faith. When I look at the amount of faith that he had to go, I'm gonna step out into this water that is rocky and waves and all of that. And he was able to walk on water to Jesus. Wow, uh, just a show of faith to me.

SPEAKER_03: 9:39

Again, uh, interestingly enough, it's obedience because Jesus tells him to. Jesus tells him to step out of the boat. And so I guess look, I think I'm already learning in this episode. I mean, it's it faith, faith is obedience. That is exactly what faith is. Faith is obedience, and he asks him to step out of the boat, and he goes, That's insane. But then he does. And he doesn't, and he's able to stand on the water. And again, I think it's just such a story for all of us.

SPEAKER_02: 10:05

And it goes back and forth again with Peter, right? He steps out of the boat in faith, gets scared by the wind, loses faith. They say he was afraid, starts to sink, right? And then Jesus goes, Hey, why did you doubt? Why do you doubt me? Right? Like you lost faith in me. So he was obedient in that, right? He was still there, but he lost faith. And I think that's the funny thing about Peter, that's like this back and forth battle. And I think the more we're talking about it, the more I see Jason, how yeah, maybe similar he is to us as as as you like he's really yeah, he's us, right? He's literally us.

SPEAKER_01: 10:42

In so many ways. I mean, go ahead, David. No, no, I'm I'm I'm listening to you guys, you know, it's it's interesting because this is what we do. You have three different versions of the same story all pointed to God. And you know, while I'm hearing you guys talk about that it is us every day, or that this is obedience, which is intertwined with faith. And I'm seeing all of that, and and you start to see these stories in a different way, and I'm going, man, where I was 100% convinced of his faithfulness, which I still am, but I'm seeing that it is his ability to be obedient, which is leading him into this faith and strengthening the faith. I think about that. I'm going, okay, I'm obedient to God, I'm gonna step in the water, and then I'm walking on water. That moment he must have just felt of going, faith in Jesus is allowing me right now to walk on water and then becoming like man, going, wait a minute, I'm walking on water, there's wind, I'm terrified, um, and all of a sudden you lose it. I'm like, man, both of you are kind of right, you want to talk about, you know, right on the mark. I agree.

SPEAKER_02: 11:51

I just think this is what the episode is shaping out to be. I think it's this Peter is a good example of how we teeter Tato sometimes, right? How we we we are scared when we when we're faced with opposition, we're faced with certain things, right? Our faith is tested in a way, and then through through sheer obedience, we start to see us, you know, come out on the other side of preaching to thousands in the Pentecost, like Peter did, to just doing these amazing things that Peter did outside of maybe he was scared at first, right? I mean, he's like you said before in the beginning, David, he denied Jesus after being with him for three years, and Jesus told him he was gonna deny him, you know, because he was faced with opposition, he was scared to to face those things.

SPEAKER_03: 12:36

Let's tell that story. I mean, just for anybody who doesn't know, let's tell that story too.

SPEAKER_02: 12:40

I mean Yeah, so this I don't have a scripture in mind right now, but you know, Jesus was caught, he was obviously betrayed by Judas. He was caught, he was in prison, and uh all the I think Peter was one of the disciples that kind of went to I don't want to say a court hearing, but he kind of went to where Jesus was at. Somebody saw Peter and Peter denied knowing Jesus, like, hey, don't you know that guy? Weren't you following him too? And he was like, No, I don't know this man. But before that, Jesus foreshadowed that or pretty much told him, hey, and in in the in the Last Supper, and then you know, before he got betrayed, he said, Hey Peter, I know you love me, but you're gonna betray me before the the rooster crows three times, you're gonna betray me three times. And we see that, and we see that happening in when Jesus was arrested. Peter betrayed, not betrayed him, but just kind of denied knowing Jesus. But it's it's a beautiful thing because he was redeemed after that. He was totally redeemed when Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected and came back, letting him know three times hey, do you love me, Peter? Kind of after the fact. And Peter's like, Yes, I do love you. Well then feed my sheep. And that's what Peter did right after he was totally obedience.

SPEAKER_03: 13:55

Yeah, I mean, and that's why I wanted to bring that up now. It's it's the counterbalance to him. We've already seen two times when he did something and then he he you know fell apart in his own mind, as as we all do sometimes. We we saw when he trusted God and then didn't trust God, and now we have the final cherry on the on top where he outwardly explicitly denied even knowing him. Yeah at his most needing hour, right? Not not that it would have changed anything, but he shouldn't have done it in that moment, and even still he was able to be redeemed, and so that's what makes Peter so relatable. When he is obedient, he sees the reaping of the fruit and he and he attributes it to God. But that doesn't mean that he attributes there forever, and it doesn't mean he always is living in faith every second of his life, it doesn't mean he's being obedient every second of his life. In fact, he he fails, he fails quite often. And and when he fails, what does he do? And this is the important part. He returns in humility and he apologizes or he, you know, you know, asks for forgiveness and then repents. Now, will he screw up again? Yes, but again, this is it wouldn't be a real story if the answer was he repented, you know, the story's over. Yeah, that wouldn't be a real story.

SPEAKER_01: 15:15

Yeah, it's it's very humanistic.

SPEAKER_03: 15:17

It's can they all lived, they all lived happily ever after would not be the real story that anybody listening right now would believe because all of us have had these you know wonderful moments of like pure clarity of God or pure clarity of our place in it, and then a day later we're like eh, I don't need that so much.

SPEAKER_02: 15:38

So it's just that's the beauty of the writings, they're so truthful, they're so like these flaws that we see there in our in the apostles is like major. Like, why would somebody put that there if they're trying to like convert people? And it's just no, they're these are human beings that really suffer, they really sack they just struggled with faith. They struggled with faith in Jesus. There's a lot of times that Peter did. I think I remember the whole get behind me, Satan. He was in thinking in his flesh, not seeking God's wisdom or what Jesus wanted to do. He was seeking his own wisdom. He goes, Get behind me. You don't know what's to come. Like you're thinking by yourself, you're thinking for your own self. We could see that a little bit when he teetered otters.

SPEAKER_01: 16:19

Now, now Simon, just so we know, Simon is his original name. It means to hear or to listen, and it gets changed to now Peter, which a lot of people they go, is this guy's name Simon? Is it Peter? Is it Simon Peter? Just so we're also clear on that. His name was Simon, changed to Peter. You can look at it as symbolic. This is somebody who is hearing God. He he was hearing God, so he was Simon. And then when he became the foundation for God's work, he became the rock. But but just so everyone's clear, when we talk about Simon or Simon Peter or Peter, this this is the same person. But let's just talk really quickly about that moment. Peter, yeah, let's talk about that moment where he actually has his name changed because I think it's really important. Yeah, let's do that. Oh, I agree. So I'm gonna lay the only real historical part of this, which I love history, I love archaeology, so I'm just gonna lay this down. Caesare Philippi is where this conversation is happening in Matthew 16, 13 to 18. Uh, this is where they're stationed right now. And this is a huge pagan area that they're at. So when they're having this conversation, they're in an area that they're not Jewish people. These are pagans who are worshiping multiple gods. They're actually staged right in front of a cave system, a mountain and cave system. And they believe that cave led to the gates of Hades. So this is where they're standing right now. And the only reason I bring this up is because when when I said earlier him being the rock, or is he, this is where I'm coming from because there are three things that happen here that it could be. And it's chances are, and I already know Jason's probably gonna say all three, but you know, this is where Jesus is asking who he is, and Simon says, You are the son of God, you're God in the flesh. This is who you are, and then his name gets changed to the rock. So is this that Peter will become the foundational leader, or the confession of who Christ is, is that the rock of the church? So the rock is the confessional that you are the Christ, or because the church, now I will build this church on this rock right in front of the landscape of the gates of hell, meaning that no matter what spiritual battle comes, the truth will remain, which is this is the church, this is the rock. And that's the only reason why, yes, his name was changed to rock, there's no doubt about it. But there there are three very specific reasons why Jesus could have said, I'm gonna build upon this right here, the rock. Is it the rock of truth, the rock of the church, or the rock being Peter?

SPEAKER_03: 19:02

I'm gonna go with number four, which is it's not that it's a combination of those things. It's the fact that look, as we've been talking about this, I've been thinking that Peter is probably the most relatable, like I said, he's very, he's very us, right? And in the moment, after all the stuff he's seen, after all the things he's done, after all the things he's gone through, after all the faith he struggled with and the and the teeter-tottering he's gone through, he stands in front of him and says, You are the Christ, the son of the living God. That's what he says to him in that moment. And so you are the rock, you, Peter, not Peter, not you, Peter, you're as a human, but you as the first person to acknowledge this. All people who acknowledge this after you are this. And it's almost like it's just the first person who has this belief system, and so anybody who continues to follow through with that belief system becomes him. So I think we are all we we are all the rock in some sense in that in that way. And he he goes on to become, you know, to to create more rocks as he as he moves forward and acts to you know to build more people who feel so.

SPEAKER_01: 20:04

Oh, I love that explanation.

SPEAKER_02: 20:08

That's good. I think for me, I think when I read it and I see the name change, it's hard because 2,000 years later, I can see how Peter was the rock, right? The like the beginning, he kind of like I would say lead, he led the church. He led the apostles through Pentecost, right? And just kind of leading people to Christ. And then the church was founded within Peter in the essential. I don't know too much history on that, but as I can see that that that he is the rock, he is he is not the cornerstone, Jesus is the cornerstone, but he is the rock, he's the the foundation of that church, I would like to say. So yeah, and I see that. I think sometimes he's the rock because he could be stubborn, he could be hard-headed. I think so there's a lot of significance there. I don't know too much as far as what was happening there with the gates to Hades and stuff, but but yeah, that's I believe that I think he is the rock because of how he lived his life after Christ, being the rock for the church.

SPEAKER_03: 21:06

I the cornerstone thing, I hadn't gotten to the cornerstone thing. Man, that was a good one because the cornerstone is the beginning point, but it needs many, many rocks to continue building beyond that. And he was just the first of them. So yeah, like I said, uh the other thing about Peter, and I don't hope I'm not cutting off any other like section you had there, but like Peter also is attributed to some really cool stuff in the Bible. Like he was there for a whole lot of the cool stuff, he was there for the transfiguration. Yep. He was there when he was there when Jesus raised the little girl from the dead, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01: 21:38

Yeah, I think he was one of the three guys in the yeah, and I as you're saying that I'm I'm thinking the reasoning behind him being so present and being the rock is going back to your obedience, is he he definitely learned lessons as we all do. Hey, I'm I'm not obedient in this or I falter here. But when you look at his obedience and his faith, it really is so strong that I think that God was showing also like you are the rock because of your obedience to who I am and and the things I'm asking you to do. And I think that because that it was so inclusive in the things you're not gonna understand everything. There's no way that that Peter understood that when he was denying God, that there was there was no way that was gonna happen in his brain. He's like, absolutely not, it'll never happen. Um, so I don't think he had understanding. He faltered, but man, did he have obedience? And and I'm I'm telling you that just I'm gonna have to reread now because I went from that's what makes him the rock.

SPEAKER_03: 22:44

But I mean that's what makes him the rock, right? Like, yes, he moved one way or the other, but he always came back. And that's what made him a rock. Like his his faith was rock solid, his obedience was rock solid, and those that's what made, you know, that's what rock always meant to me. Like he's just solid. And but it it gives me a lot of it, like fills me full when I think of the the person who's known as the rock, who's so rock solid, faltered so often, and yet he's still the rock, and he was still able to do incredible things. I mean, he was the person who confirmed that Jesus' body was gone, right? He was the one who was one one of the ones. I think John, John, John in his gospel says he beat Peter to the tomb, which was his way of saying I'm faster than you, which I found hysterical. But Peter was there for that, but Peter was also there at the end when Jesus came back after, you know, after the three days in the tomb, or you know, after what's it called? Pentecost, right? So he was there for that. And Peter was also there for for all of the the of Acts. And so, but he had to go through all the things in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John to become the person he would become a acts.

SPEAKER_01: 23:49

And actually, just because you brought this up, and I know we had an episode on what is seemingly contradictory things in the Bible, but when you talk about the scene of the empty tomb, there is an account where the angel says to the women in the empty tomb, go tell Peter and the other disciples. Right. And, you know, when I've looked at that story, I'm looking and going, if you think about Peter, who was so obedient and faithful to Christ, and then the last thing that he does before Christ dies is to reject him three times what he must have been feeling in those moments, and then to hear Christ go out and say, Tell Peter personally, tell everybody, but tell Peter by name. I I just think about the overwhelming joy that he must have had again from being this obedient, faithful person to being named from an angel, going, Hey, we want you, we want you to know by name you're you know everything's gonna be okay. Jesus is no longer there. And I just it's just a another beautiful moment of obedience and and faithfulness that had led his name to be called out by an angel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 25:04

That's it's crazy. And then I mean, let's talk about Acts a little bit before we finish on Peter because Peter, Peter is whether whether I'm right or whether any of those other examples are right, Peter became the rock of the church. I mean, Peter was the not the cornerstone, as as Javi so rightly said, but without Peter, it's hard to see how any of this would have come come to be. I mean, he was the he was part of choosing Judas's replacement as part of the 12. You know, he did the sermon that that converted 3,000. You know, there's there's a lot of stuff that Peter did later. So, you know, yeah, whether whether one side or the yeah, he did he did miracles. That's right. He did miracles, he confronted Ananias and Sapphira. I mean, there's just uh he did so many things after that. And again, that came because of his faithfulness and his obedience and his his his constant man. I just had a really weird thought. The other thing that makes a weird thought about rock is that he was chiseled into who he became. Yeah, he was he started very rough and he had to screw up to get chiseled down and go, that's not it. Chop, chop, chop. Nope, bad one, chop, chop, chop, nope, another bad one, chop, chop, chop. And he ended up being sculpted into who he would become. I know that's a really long stretch there, but no, it's it's nonetheless a pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_01: 26:18

I'll actually go with you in his maturity. If you look at the the name again, he is Simon at first, then he's Simon Peter, and then Peter. And this is also showing his maturity of as Simon, I am listening, I'm hearing. As Simon Peter, I'm taking on both characteristics. I am listening, but I'm also the rock. And then when he is chiseled, he is now the rock. He is now Peter fully. I think you're you're onto something because it also shows the progression of man through the maturing of our own faith. And I think that it's a beautiful concept that you just laid out.

SPEAKER_03: 26:55

Again, one of the things that I think all of us here are are men of a certain age, and it takes a little bit of that men of a certain age to to know that sometimes you have to Yeah, says David as he pulls on his white beard. It's it's one of those things we you learn over time, like God chisels you down, and it might your your obedience will chisel sometimes, your disobedience will chisel sometimes, your right actions will chisel at times, and your poor actions will chisel at times. Uh and and all of them, most of them will hurt relatively similarly, but it's all for a good cause, which is to to put you in the state that God meant you to be in the first place. Yeah. So I do I do enjoy Peter for that reason.

SPEAKER_01: 27:40

Something else I'll just add to that, and again, this is just uh hitting me as we're talking. This is such a great conversation. When Jesus is telling Peter, get behind me, Satan, I'm thinking of him going, if this is the son of God, the creator of everything, telling me to get behind him, Satan, and call me Satan, I'd be really offended. I'd be really hurt. But he's he's not right. You know what he gets hurt is when he offends, when he rejects God, now he's hurt. And I'm going, man, you know, when God, when God quote unquote strikes us for a lesson for learning, it should be okay. When we do something to offend God, it should hurt us. And he's actually even showing us, he's modeling that in his life as well. It's hey, God is telling me to get behind him because I'm acting a certain way. I'm gonna be okay with that. I'm not gonna be okay when I offend him. And I just thought about that as well as you're talking, Jason. And I'm like, this is just such a you're right. It's such a great character for who we are as people, who we try to become as we mature. Just amazing. 100%.

SPEAKER_03: 28:45

Yeah, he's he's probably my favorite character. So I don't think I realized that until I knew he was top three, but I think he's he's slowly, he slowly became top, top number one for me today. So, guys, I this is fun, this is enlightening, and I have something, something more to look at this week. So, ladies and gentlemen, fellow listeners and viewers, we appreciate your time as always. We love your attention on the socials. We love your your reviews go a long way. Maybe a little bragging. This has actually been our biggest month ever, and we attribute that to you guys telling other people. We attribute it to you guys giving us reviews, and all those stars do it, guys. So we appreciate you and we appreciate your continued listenership and confidence in us. We look forward to talking to you again next week, and we'll see you then. Have a blessing.