SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, so I'm going to start today's episode a little bit different. I'm going to start with a Hebrew word, Yehidim. And yehidim is comes from the Bible, and what it means is lonely. But it's not loneliness like we know it. It actually means only child, or it's the beloved but vulnerable person. So they don't see it as an emotion, as a feeling, even though there are times where I've been in a room and it's been filled with people, and I just feel like I'm invisible. And and loneliness is it's not just the absence of people, but it's the absence of being seen, being heard, feeling like you're part of something. Have you guys felt that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 0:48

Yeah, wholeheartedly. And as somebody who's an only child, I love that definition. Thank you very much. It means I'm more loved than other people with siblings. So thanks for that. Just kidding. Just kidding. Um, yeah, look, I I Carl Jung has a quote that loneliness does not come from having no people around, but being unable to communicate. So I think you're right on target with that. I too, I mean, especially when you're, you know, an angsty teenager or an angsty 20 something, you know, it's it's easy to find yourself in large crowds or groups or parties and go, why do I feel so alone? Why do I feel so separate from other people? And one of the things that I, you know, kind of found out from that Carl Jung quote and some of the things I think we'll talk about today is that it's loneliness and alone are two very different concepts. And they're and biblically, as we talk about it too, you know, they express themselves very differently. There's there's a purpose or an understanding of alone, which is a different purpose and a different understanding of loneliness.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51

Listen, in church we're told that we should be part of a community, church is a community, but we have to realize that that community is not proximity, it's participation. So you could be part of a community and not participate, and you're gonna feel very alone. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05

No, I love that's a good distinction because I could see people being lonely at church. You know, like they could be surrounded, they believe in the same God, they believe in Jesus Christ and this walk, but still feel lonely, still feel unseen, still feel, you know, I don't fit in, you know, this is weird for me, or people don't see me. And I think we were talking a little bit offline, Jason. You were saying I think it was kind of key. It's you can still feel disconnected in some kind of way because you're thinking internally. Like, how can I listen to you when I'm thinking about myself? You know, and I think that was kind of kind of interesting. I think there's a there's a battle that's going on between there's an internal battle that's happening that you can't enjoy the physical, you can't enjoy other people's presence and what they're going through because you're so internally thinking about your own self. And not to say that's selfish in any kind of way, I just think it's hard, it's a tough battle.

SPEAKER_02: 2:55

It's in your head. It's like an eternal battle, right? We are we are sinners, we are people who tend to think of ourselves first and not put God first. And one of the many challenges that come when we put ourselves first is the amount of internal struggle we put upon ourselves. And again, we'll we'll talk about this later. I think we should probably separate this into two parts, right? Like what about alone and loneliness. So at the at the end, we can talk maybe more about the loneliness part, but I I I will precurse it by saying I think a lot of people get in their heads, especially when they're feeling lonely or alone, to start thinking about, well, I'm not worthy and I'm not enough and I'm not good enough, and and nobody does, you know, I don't deserve the attention or the or the connection. And that's something that happens when you're when you're by yourself, when you're thinking of oneself and you're not thinking of God first or God's people first. And and it's not to say that those thoughts aren't normal because they are entirely probably the most normal thing in the world, but there, but there is an antidote to them. And the antidote is, you know, acknowledging God first, acknowledging God's community first, putting your putting them before yourself, and you'll see, you know, a huge transformation. But but again, that's that's a later topic.

SPEAKER_00: 4:05

So let's let's talk about a lot of things. I love that you said Jason, you said lonely and loneliness, you know, it's something to think about because you said, you know, that you don't believe they're they're together, that they're they belong separate, which is you have loneliness and lonely and you know the feeling of being lonely. Uh I'm just curious if you know what to you is the difference between the two?

SPEAKER_02: 4:23

Well, I mean, alone, alone is is when you are not with other people, you are isolated or you're, you know, when when you feel see, it's tricky, right? Because they're there, you know, when you feel alone is also the feeling of loneliness. But when you're actually physically alone is when you no one's around you. So I would say that there's a I would actually say that alone can be a benefit. When you pray, you should probably play alone sometimes. We we talk about characters in the Bible who needed to be alone in order to in order to find their next step or what God's will was. And so Jesus is one and Moses is one who had to be alone for a while, but they they weren't necessarily lonely. They may have been. I'm not gonna say that they weren't at that time, but they may they that's not a necessity that they were lonely just because they were alone.

SPEAKER_00: 5:11

So yes, I think solitude is necessary to reveal your identity, your calling. I think that's we what you're mentioning. You know, you look at Moses and King David, they needed to be in solitude to find their calling, where Jesus he withdrew many times from his disciples and chose to be alone to spend time with the father. And and you know, I just a quick story. I think about this all the time. When I was learning to be a coach in in the ring, when I was a fighter for years, and I was learning to be a coach, one of the things my coach told me is you don't reprimand your fighter in the presence of others. You take them away, you reprimand them alone, and then they bring them back. I go, man, God has God has privately trained me for a public calling. Yeah. And I'm so glad that God has followed that rule as well for me because man, it would have been hard to publicly go through some of the things I've gone through.

SPEAKER_02: 6:08

Right. Yeah, I mean, that I think that's a really great point. I mean, the the idea that sometimes you're again, we're it's a very fine line, but your being alone and maybe feeling lonely in that moment of alone can be God shaping you. It can definitely be God, you know, helping you to sharpen your blade, to hone your craft, to deal with some of your own demons so that you're able to better help other people deal with their demons. And like you said, you don't want to do that, you don't want to do that in public. Very true.

SPEAKER_01: 6:39

Yeah, I get Javi. You know, there's this there's this thing that we have to remember that we're we are not alone, right? We're we're all God is always with us, right? And we always have somebody to lean on, to to speak to, right? And and build a relationship with. And I think if we lean into his words and lean into that relationship we have with God, we could start finding our crowd, our people, people that understand us, people that want to, you know, form a relationship with us, which is also an important thing of how to combat. I mean, maybe we'll get into that, how to like overcome loneliness is through relationships. You know, I think that's the big key.

SPEAKER_00: 7:19

You know, Javi, you mentioned loneliness, you know, people that sometimes you need to rid yourself of people. And I think about that. I go, you know, there are times that people are in my life that I have to, for the betterment of the presence of my purpose, I actually choose to be alone and not in their presence, which makes perfect sense. But but I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge both of you for a second because there are people who are introvert to extrovert. There are people who being alone is something that they actually look forward to and it refills them. And then you have people that being alone scares them and they don't want to be part of that. And I just kind of want to hit on it for a second, you know, introvert to extrovert. First of all, I already know what it is, but which one are you guys? Are you introvert or extrovert? And what does that mean for you? Uh yeah, go ahead, Javi.

SPEAKER_01: 8:06

Please. Uh let me start first. So I find myself to be both, which is kind of weird. I I get my feel, like I get my energy from others and speaking to others. I'm a verbal thinker. Sometimes you hear it on the podcast. I'm thinking through what I'm thinking, and I have to let it out. And I think I get energy from just being around others. And then there's times that I just want to be alone. I just want to just kind of be in my own little room, think about things, but I never let myself go too deep in that. That I get into some kind of you know depression or kind of feeling loneliness. But there is that too that I kind of battle with. I think I'm more of an extrovert if I have to pick one, but I think I love the both.

SPEAKER_00: 8:46

Is what you would say you are. I think I know. I am actually an introvert that masquerades as an extrovert. I I, if you look at my life, I have very few friends, close people to me, a very small circle. I would prefer the time of reflection and loneliness than a time filled with noise.

SPEAKER_02: 9:08

Aloneness. We gotta we gotta think of it. Aloneness. Aloneness, right? Look, I'm I'm that's good. I think a lot of people might be surprised by this, but I am definitely an introvert, like hardcore introvert. The fact that I'm able to, you know what I learned one time is that an introvert is somebody who recharges alone. An extrovert is somebody who recharges with other people. And I have friends who, if they they I mean, I think everybody like turns up the heat a little bit when other people are around, but there's some people who literally draw energy from it. And I'm on the other side. I'm like, I I love talking to people and I enjoy our conversations, but I'm spent when it's over. I am spent. So yeah, I'm very much an introvert. So going back to this whole concept of people who love to be alone versus people who don't, right? That's where we're the where this is going. And I think I again, for me, it's very important to separate the idea of alone and lonely because I can be alone for long periods of time and write and read and recharge and think and consider, but I don't feel lonely in those moments. I I feel alone, but I don't feel lonely. And you know, I think that that's that's the big difference. It's like the question is do you feel do you feel lonely? And do you feel lonely? If you're an extrovert or an introvert, do you feel lonely or do you feel not lonely?

SPEAKER_01: 10:22

No, no, no, no. I I no, I'm I don't know. I'm no. I feel like when I'm alone, I know that I have people that that love me, that want to to know about me. I am secure with who I am and my love. And for myself, you know, not to say that that's the reason why people are lonely, but for myself, I I feel like I'm okay with being alone. I think through my faith and diving into my faith a little bit more, I found being alone is a recharge to be we need to be alone. We need to to to really shape out what's going on in our head and really give it up to God, you know, kind of let it go. There's there's a there's a there's a recharge in praying, there's a recharge in reading the Bible and re getting refilled in that way. And then we also, you know, I have to go out there. Like I I call myself an extrovert because I see people and I I go up to you and I'll talk to you just because I'm curious about you. And and I try to be humble in the in a sense to listen to you and hear from you, and hopefully I'm able to offer something from you, right? And that's of course, that's the gift of God.

SPEAKER_02: 11:29

So, right? It's like you have you have God by your side, you have a community of believers by your side. You have those things. And again, this is kind of why I separate the alone versus lonely. I I think that's what this conversation is is about, is like being able to segment alone from lonely and and being able to see either the benefit or the power of aloneness and the and the maybe the finding the antidotes to the loneliness.

SPEAKER_00: 11:55

Yeah, I mean, I think that I was gonna flip the script anyway, so I'm glad you did. But but mine was, you know, I'm somebody who feels as though, yes, when I'm alone, and I've said it, when I'm alone, I I feel like I get recharged. The thing is, and I think about the the show alone that's on right now, and that show, I'm on it going, man, these guys are leaving after six, seven days. I can go years, no problem. But the truth of the matter is that God knows this and he knows we're not meant to be alone. And flipping that from you know, us kind of going, look, it's okay to be alone, and there are times we want to be alone, to God is saying to us, it's not good to be alone all the time. And that, you know, people want to be seen, they want to be heard, they want to be known, and that's nothing wrong with that. That's actually how God made us. So I feel like even being an introvert, when I watch that show, I'm going, no, I really I think if I'm alone too much, it would get to me. And I do want company from people not just to say hi to, but you know, hobby, you got the nail on the head with that, which is, you know, you want to know people and their story and what they're about, and you want some meaningful relational conversation. Somebody coming up just saying hi doesn't do it for me. When I'm engaged in conversation about the Lord, I light up and I can go for days and feel recharged through it because it's meaningful conversation. And I think that that's now we're getting the heart of lonely versus alone, yeah, which is do you want to be, you know, unseen, deeply known? What where's your, you know, your motivation and how do you feeling this lonely versus alone?

SPEAKER_02: 13:30

Well, and I and I should also temper the idea of like, oh, I'm an introvert and you're an introvert and we're introverts, and we like to be alone, but not forever. None of us wants to be alone forever, right? And that and and there's a time when loneliness or excuse me, aloneness can turn to loneliness or even sinfulness. Um, I was looking this week and for no particular reason, but Proverbs 18 came up and it says, He who isolates himself pursues selfish desires. He rebels against sound judgment. I mean, the Proverb is telling us that we are meant to be communal animals. Even even if we are exhausted by it sometimes, we're called to be that. Because uh the reality is we can't know ourselves wholly without putting ourselves through the rigor of other people. We have to, how do we react to other people? How do we connect with other people? What parts of ourselves do we need to develop in order to connect with other people? What part of our it's very easy to be alone and think that everything's perfect and you're perfect because nobody's telling you otherwise because you're not getting any feedback to the to the contrary. But I think that one of the things for me particularly, coming back to the faith, I've said this before that community that I've found in the Christian church or in our church is second to none. I mean, I I wouldn't have had that otherwise. There, there's parts of myself that have been developed that I've been able to practice, that I've been able to execute against, that I've learned about myself, that I never would have been able to do if I sat alone, you know, with myself. I mean, I have a family too, don't get me wrong. I mean, I my my family is ultra important in this as well. And I think that's probably another side of the loneliness we should talk about. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:06

But I I feel like I feel like with you know, Jason, like letting go of maybe what has been done in the past for you, I think you came, like your your story's interesting, right? For you not, you know, kind of combating this faith in God and just trying to find your way. And maybe, you know, at times, you know, I don't want to put it words in your mouth, but like at times maybe you felt like I now that I maybe want to believe or go into it, I I feel ashamed to kind of do that. And I feel like my past is stopping me to moving forward in that. And I think you found that confidence to come forward and go, I'm open, I'm here and I'm open. And that's kind of my story as well. You know, like I was I kind of hit in a way some kind of rock bottom, and I was open to receive any kind of spiritual thing or kind of help. I was grabbing, you know, any kind of direction in a way, and with that openness, God found me. And within that openness, I continue to, you know, search further. And I think that's one of the things is and we could rest assured with our faith that Jesus Christ came for us, you know, He He died and bled for us, and our sins are forgiven. Our past is done. We've we've been washed away. Like that shame that you felt, or you feel weird, or you feel, you know, you feel anxiety because people are not gonna see you in a way, like that that's done. That's due away. So we can move forward in confidence, knowing that we could build a relationship with others, you know, and most of all with God. So I love that that you came to you, you were open coming into that. You would if you weren't open, Jason. I feel like it would be really hard. I would be lonely. I would be far more lonely than that.

SPEAKER_02: 16:36

I mean, that's that's that's what it comes down to, right? Like I I yeah, I feel for the lonely people. I feel tremendous empathy for the lonely people. And and I think that's another thing we need to acknowledge is there's a lot of different people who are lonely for different reasons. There are people who are lonely in their relationships, there's people who are lonely because of their friend groups, there's people who are lonely because they feel like they have nobody, there's people who feel lonely because of a larger family structure. I mean, there's a lot of people who feel lonely for a lot of reasons. And the beauty of the gospel is that even though the physical people around you that you've surrounded with yourself so far may have not been filling that void, A, God is there to fill that void. God is there, Jesus is there to fill that void, to be beside you, to understand you. Going back to the Carl Jung quote about earlier about not feeling understood, God understands. You know, there's you don't you don't need to express it out to a person to have them understand it if at the very minimum, if you can say it to God and he goes, I know, I get it, I understand. I think there's a there's such beauty and such power in that. But beyond that, he's given us the the church, the body of the church. And the body of the church is the expression of God through humans, at least if you're around godly people, right? That's a I think that's a really valid, valuable part of this. It has to be people who are expressing the the values of God. But if you're around them, then you're also going to be seeing you're gonna be seeing God in physical form. You know, you're going to be seeing in a tangible form. And it's such a blessing to be able to do that and to find people who share those beliefs, to find people who are willing to listen to your story no matter what. And you've mentioned a few times in this podcast already the shame that you might have. People who've been through the same things and yet they're moving forward. To be able to see that makes you feel far less lonely because you're not the only person who screwed up. The you're not the only person who's yeah, we we all, I mean, spoiler alert, every single one of us has screwed up tremendously in our lives, and yet we got to keep going. And God says, keep going, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 18:43

You know, Jason, you mentioned multiple types of reasons to feel lonely, and it really makes me I start thinking about King David. And King David was rejected by his family. Yep. Uh, he was outcast, then he went alone, running from Saul, spent a lot of time alone, probably in in biblical characters. He's the one who I think of the most when it comes to being alone, and he wrote laments in Psalms about it. Psalm 68, six, literally, he wrote, God sets the lonely in families. And I think about the three of us, and God set the three of us who we all just admitted we have these introvert tendencies, we have our past, we have these reasons, and yet we come together so naturally because God put us into a family. And I feel as though when people are feeling like, hey, I'm alone, I'm lonely, whether it's a family rejection, whether it's I chose to be alone and now I don't want to be anymore, whether it's I'm running from something and I feel alone because I'm running from that thing, God will put you with a family. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things. Now we can talk about the loneliness that where God's presence is always there, but God is also making a way for us to feel connected with others. Yeah. That way we're never lonely, we're always in a family. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things that he does.

unknown: 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:02

I mean, he Hebrews 10, 24 through 25 says, let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, but encouraging one another. I mean, again, we are we are built to be in community, whether we are introverts, extroverts, or otherwise, we are built because we just we can't develop ourselves in a vacuum. We can't, and and I also don't think, and I this may be even even a point further than I expected to go here, but like we're not expected to do it in a smaller group either. Like if we if we just get ourselves into an echo chamber of, you know, the three or four people that that agree with us all the time, that's not going to help us either. Like we have to be in larger, larger groups, and we have to force ourselves, even if it's very uncomfortable sometimes, to connect with people who are very unlike us, who are come from different walks of life and different backgrounds and different political leanings, and and to continue to express those things so that we can learn about ourselves and again do it for the glory of God.

SPEAKER_00: 20:59

We we cover that in Job, where we looked at Job's three friends who who are like-minded and they were giving the same advice, and it was terrible advice. And if you have just the the same people as you, I agree a hundred percent. You know, we we we're called to find different people to share and do life with. But yes, I agree. It's it's you know, sometimes people surround themselves with three of themselves.

SPEAKER_02: 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:23

And you can still feel very lonely.

SPEAKER_02: 21:25

Yeah, I and I I'll even say that one of the things I think I mentioned this earlier, but I'm not sure how deep I went into it. Is look, I I think that there's a certain amount of selfishness that comes with loneliness. And I know that might may sound a little harsh, but I mean, if I'm sitting in a room by myself telling me I'm not worth it, I'm not good enough, I don't deserve this, uh why should I get anything? That's a very personal, internalized, selfish thing. And I can't say that I'm not guilty of feeling those things. I think we're all guilty of feeling those things, but it's when you really stop and look at it, that's not what God has ever asked us. It's not how God sees us, it's not the way other people see us. It's how we see ourselves because we get stuck in our own little circles of our of our own interior life. And so part of the part of the the most important parts of stepping out into a larger community is being able to step out of your own head. Being able to I I remember even when I first started jumping in, if I'm being really honest, I would say, Well, I still don't fit in here. This I don't fit in here. People aren't like me. They're they're not like me, they don't think the same things as I do. That's thing that that person said just it doesn't resonate with me. And the big change for me was to be able to say, let me stop looking at it from my perspective, let me look at it from theirs. And maybe this person isn't gonna be like me in 50 things, but let me find the singular thing that we relate in. And that took some selflessness on my part. This this is not a pat me on the back scenario. This is something I've gone through that somebody else might benefit from hearing. Is like I had to physically say, like, okay, let me find the connection point between me and this person. And when I did that, my own walls were able to come down. And I was able to look at these people differently, and I was able to then, by extension, look at myself differently and go, man, I really was being a little bit, I don't know, uppity. I was being a little bit, you know, uh me, me, me, me, me. And it wasn't until I looked at these people and said, Oh, this is what we have in common. It's these two things. And now I can connect with them on these two and and God, right? We we all have God in common. But sorry, I'm right, I'm I'm rambling a little bit, but it's it's it's just important to me.

SPEAKER_01: 23:34

No, that's the beauty of relationships. That's the beauty of relationships. I think it's there's this thing, there's this iron sharp and iron things that happen. There's just perseverance that happens, right? There's I know a lot of people, you know, that do not want to go to churches because they feel hurt, or they feel like I don't want to deal with people because they hurt me or the way they are, or I gotta go through these weird, awkward conversations that I don't want to go through. And I think that's the beauty of relationship. The beauty of relationship is to build one another, is to I need to be humble to listen to what you're saying, right? And and listen, and then I'm able to receive maybe so hopefully a relationship there. I'm able to find commonity. Common, find similarities, right? Sorry, I guess so find similarities in that that I could build off of. You know, I need to go through the hurt, right? Somebody lied to me or did something to me, and I'm able to persevere through that through God, through other relationships, and go, all right, I'm better for it. I know how to guard myself. But guarding yourself and putting yourself in a room, putting yourself alone, that's what the enemy wants. He wants you to be alone, he wants you to have your own thoughts, your own feeling of things. And we need to remember that, like going back to what you were saying, like you are worth it. God loves you, you are perfect the way you are, and he wants to put you in a group of people to build this community, build this relationship so you can all flourish. You could be the hand, I could be the foot, Jason could be the head, he could be David, could be the chest. Like we're all parts of a body that builds this bigger kingdom. No, I'm not sure. Sorry, I'm like preaching out, but I I just feel like you said the right words, and you expressed it better than I did.

SPEAKER_02: 25:09

It's it's getting into a relationship with other people is more about lowering your own walls than anything else. Like, I can't succeed in a relationship if I'm all walls, right? I can't succeed in a relationship if I already know everything. I can't succeed in a relationship if I'm already perfect. And so if you're trying to succeed in those relationships, it requires you to humble yourself, to break down your walls of separation between others, and it forces you to connect, and then that connection is what changes you. I mean, it's I I think a lot about again, and now we're let's go back to maybe some more theological stuff, but I mean, this is what the entire Bible is about. Like, it's about re-rebirth. Like, you know, it's it's this is this is our opportunity to resurrect ourselves. Our our we're you know, we're oftentimes we're dead men walking because we believe we know everything. It's not until we die to our flesh, die to our ego, die to ourselves, that we are able to be reborn into a much bigger community, into the community of God.

SPEAKER_01: 26:16

I wanted to say, like, you're you're you're not alone in your loneliness, right? When you look at the Bible, there's multiple characters, and David might jump into it, like Joseph, right? He was lonely, he was sold off by his brothers. Moses killed somebody and wanted to go into Zezre for how long he was. He was lonely in that. Elijah is a big one. Elijah was so big. He went off, he ran away, he did everything he did for God. He ran away, and he wanted to kill himself, right? He prayed for death in what he just did. How how deep of loneliness he was feeling within that. You know, and then God was like, No, no, no, you go back, go, you go back there, right? Right? That's funny. He did take a nap, he did a couple naps, and then David, right? We got so many multiple stories, and then of course, I feel like the the biggest one is Jesus. Jesus, I feel like we mentioned before, maybe Jesus went out to be alone. I don't think he was lonely in the desert, he was alone, he had to be by himself to pray, and that's where the devil was trying to get him, right? And alone, but he had God's word. But where he felt the most lonely and deserted is him being on the cross. His disciples ran away from him, everything was like just taken away from him. He's like, Where is everybody? God, why have you forsaken me and putting me in this situation? And to feel just to I say that to say, just know you're not alone in your loneliness, and we could overcome that through the stories, through the stuff that we see in the Bible, and how God redeems his character.

SPEAKER_00: 27:42

What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna combine what the two of you are saying because I think it's really important that you know we see a lot of people in distress, and I always say that with the Bible, you know the ending of the story, so it's almost easier. You go, Well, yeah, he was alone, but I know he ends up fine because this. Right. And there are times in our lives when we are truly feeling uh alone, yes, but we have those walls up and they are secure, boy. And and us saying you have to take the walls down, they're going, yeah, right. That's like telling somebody with an anxiety attack, just calm down. Just calm down. It's just not something that they go, it's it's impossible. And the only thing I can say is that the one person that deeply knows you is God. And if you look at Deuteronomy 31, 6, Lord your God goes with you, he will never leave you. Yeah, this is somebody who now knows everything you did. So when you go, hey, I'm not gonna go to this group, they have no idea what I did, they have no idea what I'm going through, God does. Right. And he will never leave you. So the creator himself, who loves you, will always be there, knows everything that's going on, knows how you're feeling, and he's still there with you. So in the moment when you're feeling alone, when you have that loneliness built up in you, and you can't, you go, I can't, I just can't make it to a group right now. I can't make it to a group. It is crippling loneliness. I can't even get out of my own way. At the bare minimum, know that the creator of everything who loves you, who sacrificed himself for you, will never leave you. He's there with you. It's it's something to work off of. So, yes, he wants us to have community, but for somebody who says, I can't step into community right now, the community he wants is with him as well. Yeah. And you have to just lean into that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02: 29:26

Well, there's a bunch of psalms about that. I mean, you know, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. I mean, I think for anybody who is out there who is really going through it and feeling isolated and feeling both alone and lonely, you're not. And the Bible's very clear about that. You are not. You are not alone. You are you are in the presence of God who loves you, who's standing right behind you and just waiting for you to turn around. You know, there's a weird song, there's a song called What's What's that song that we sing at church? I forget what the name of the song is, but it says something about meet me in the middle. You know, you'll meet me in the middle, you'll meet me in the middle. Middle. And we were singing this song in church the other day, and it really hit me. Something something hit me really hard is that we're so used to thinking meet in the middle. If I walk halfway, you'll walk halfway. God doesn't walk halfway. If you take a single half step in the opposite direction, he'll cover the other 10 miles. And yeah, this is, I mean, what a like I got chills thinking about it. Like, what a glorious idea that I don't even need to take a hundred steps towards your hundred steps. If I just turn my head towards you and surrender and say, I need you, he's there. Immediately he's there.

SPEAKER_00: 30:36

And I that a better feeling. I I have I've said this on on, I believe, this podcast. I've been interviewed and talked about my testimony. Yeah. Having a rough go with my earthly father, and and coming to Christ ultimately by knowing there's a heavenly father that loves me. Psalm 2710 gets to me probably more than any other psalm. And it is though my father and mother have received forsaken me, the Lord will receive me. Ouch. And it's something where I don't know if there's anything in my life more harmful or hurtful than being rejected constantly by my earthly father. And to have the heavenly father receive me and as you said, cover 10 miles, even if I turn, to still be there every time I turn away. And I think of like a cartoon where as far as the guy walks away, he turns around over his shoulder and the guy's still right there. And I'm going, that's that's God. And I'm I'm so blessed that God had found me in that moment because I was very alone. I was very lonely. And he knew it and said that, you know, your heavenly father is here to receive you forever. Yeah. And he's never left me.

SPEAKER_01: 31:49

I I feel like in the in the midst of being lonely and doing the things that, you know, depress, anxiety, being shameful. You know, I think there is something up, and I'm learning this myself. God calls us to also be we have to be totally right, we have to be obedient. He could he he could go, hey, I know you're lonely, and you feel like you want a uh uh friends with you. Hey, here's this flyer to this this music thing that you like, go to it. You might meet some people, and you're like, no, no, no, no. Like you still have to walk and do that. He's not gonna take it, I don't think he's gonna take it away and get rid of it. I mean, we look at characters like David, right? David was out, yeah, he was being chased by Saul, he felt lonely. I mean, he says it in Psalm 25, 16, 17. He goes, Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Relieve the troubles of my heart and free me from my anguish. And then the famous one obviously is you know, in the valley, right? Psalm 23, 4. Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, no evil, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they come for me. That is good, but he still had to walk through it. He still had to go through it. Oh, Javi, what a good one coming. And I'm I'm learning this myself. I'm I'm I'm preaching this to myself because I still need to learn to take action, right? David smacks me in the top of the head all the time. No, not physically, but always verbally. It's like I need to take action in the things that he's calling me because although I am scared of those things, although I am sometimes it gives me anxiety to kind of walk through those things. I know there is a there's something greater within that, and I think I'm afraid to take that on. And I think we have to be okay with walking through that, you know. So I say that to say, take action in what God is calling you. The Holy Spirit is speaking to us always, and community is a good thing, it's not a bad thing. Community is a great thing.

SPEAKER_02: 33:43

I couldn't agree more, and I mean, I think I've I'm I feel like I'm being redundant at this point, but I'm being redundant purposefully because it's so important to me. The like you said, the obedience to God is how God's will gets executed. Like, God's will can't be executed if you go, yeah, not today. Like, nope, not this week. Nope, I'll go next Sunday. Like it that his will can't be done. We we have to express, we have to be the living expressions of his will. We have to be the living expressions of you know what will ultimately be God's providence. And if we don't act, things don't change, you know, and and particularly as it comes to loneliness. And again, this is something that I don't think I ever understood the level of loneliness that I had before I started joining these groups, but I have far less now. I mean, look, life is never perfect and nobody's ever perfect, but I have far less loneliness than I had before because I have a community around me. I do have a group of people around me, and it and I did have to do the work to show up, and I did have to do the work to figure out how to connect, and I did have to do the work on myself to stop being so egotistical that I was like, well, I don't fit here, or or even self-critical. It's maybe not the word egotistical, but so self-critical, I don't fit here. This isn't for me. These people aren't for me. This isn't like me.

SPEAKER_01: 35:06

And you have so much to give too, Jason. Like your experiences of what you went through through your, you know, through your childhood and just kind of your adulthood, right? But also your experience through education and everything like that. Like you have so much to give, you know, not only Jason, but all of us, right? And I think that's what he calls us to is not only to receive, to receive relationship, but also to give what's going on.

SPEAKER_02: 35:29

But when you're so lonely, and this is the thing, when you're so lonely, you don't see the things you have to give. Because you're thinking, well, this is especially when you're in a when you're in a vacuum, everything sounds abstractly or it sounds super normal because it's just what's in my head. Like, so to me, it was never anything to give. It was never, I never had anything to offer anybody. But then I get in a group of people and they're like, oh, that's cool. But what is that? Tell me about this, tell me about this, what about that? And I'm like, wow, I might have I might actually have something to give. But I wouldn't have found that had I continued to live in the, you know, live without the action that God had called me to do to be in to be in a group of people.

SPEAKER_00: 36:01

So yeah, I mean I'll tell you if if you're in this moment and you're feeling I mean truly lonely, if you're feeling alone and you can't, you know, you just don't have the ability to reach out, just remember the connection starts vertically before horizontally.

SPEAKER_02: 36:15

And if you just reach out to me clear, I know, I know we know what that means, but explain what that means.

SPEAKER_00: 36:20

So the connection vertically means with God, who above. I mean, that's that's the connection piece right there is I'm connecting with God before I'm connecting with man. And it's so important to have that relationship and God will help guide you through. You know, we said it, God sets the lonely in families, God does things, God will not leave us. So we need to have that relationship vertically, and he will give us those opportunities and put those people in our lives, he will put that family in our lives that we can connect with. We just need to connect with him. And and I just think that, you know, if you're in that position where you feel like, hey, I'm trying everything, or I'm an introvert and I just can't get out there, build that relationship vertically, and I guarantee you the horizontal one will fall into place a lot easier.

SPEAKER_02: 37:06

And I and I'll and I'll leave it with this too. I think there's a lot of people who are lonely who don't know what is next, or they think they know what's next and it's not working out for them. And I'll leave you with Proverbs 3, which is the 3-5, which is trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. We think we know so much, we try to control so much, but we just don't we don't know. And so if you get right with the Lord, that's trusting in the Lord with all your heart. And if you are being humble in that relationship, it means you're not going to lean on your understanding. And if you do submit your ways to him, he will make those paths straight. He will help you find that community, he will lead you out of that loneliness, he will lead you out of that aloneness. And I think that that's just such a such a beautiful thing to remember is that I every person listening, I love you deeply, but you don't know. God knows. Trust trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your understanding because your understanding is not as as great as his is. And I and and I say that with all the love and care and compassion I can possibly give, but it's it's it's a worthy thing to remember in all that we do. So, guys, this has been quite a conversation. You you all have shared things that I didn't know about you, also. So I appreciate that. I always appreciate learning about you. I also appreciate learning about our people who follow and listen as well. So please write to us, let us know where you're at. If you're particularly somebody who's feeling lonely and you're somebody who's feeling like, you know, this is this is something that's really, you know, hurting you right now and a pain in your life and feeling a deep feeling for you. Reach out to us. Seriously, reach out to one of us, reach out to all of us. We'd all like to talk to you and you know help you through whatever that next step is. Um, but until then, we're gonna go and we'll see you again next week. So thanks again for listening and uh God bless you all.

SPEAKER_01: 38:51

Bye bye. See you guys.