Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro, hey, I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason Holloway.

Speaker 1: 0:10

Imagine standing alone on a battlefield across from a giant whose armor weighs more than you do, and you stand there no sword, no shield, just a slingshot and a handful of stones. It's not a fair fight, but that's the exact kind of fight that God loves. Stones it's not a fair fight, but that's the exact kind of fight that God loves. This is the story of David and Goliath. It's not merely about an ancient duel. It's about every giant impossible challenge we face today. I'm so excited, guys, to be here today. How's you doing Good?

Speaker 2: 0:39

We are excited to talk about our friend David.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Yes, yes, have you guys heard of the story of David and Goliath?

Speaker 2: 0:47

I know a person who's both David and Goliath actually. For those of you out there who don't know? David is like 6'4" 280. So I always joke that he is David, who looks more like Goliath.

Speaker 1: 1:01

That is me. It's incredible because we're going to get into the story, but this is known as an underdog story. It's actually something we use today in our regular language of David and Goliath, that this is this is something that we know of.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Everybody has heard of this story, but we're going to talk a little bit about, maybe, the story you don't know with it, and then maybe some of the stuff that you do know in a different way. I just want to set the stage. So right now we have David. We kind of know him as soon as he's already in there, he's already the guy on the battlefield fighting. If you look at a little bit of the backstory, david was known by Saul already.

Speaker 1: 1:37

So King Saul, who was the first king of Israel, lost the favor of God. He was doing things that he shouldn't have been doing. He was taking credit for the things that he shouldn't be taking credit for. Pride got in the way and he lost his anointing from the Lord and because of that he started to have these weird visions and he wasn't able to sleep and he was tormented by an evil spirit. And one of the things that calmed him down was David, who was a musician. He played a harp, which I don't know if a lot of people knew that David was a harp player as well, a musician, and it calmed Saul's nerves. And this is how they were introduced to each other, because David worked in Saul's court relaxing him.

Speaker 1: 2:24

We're going to fast forward now really quickly, right into the Philistines, which were the enemies of the Israelites, and the head of the Philistines in war was Goliath. And I say that I'm going to use the term loosely because there's actually a side of this that I'm not sure if anybody really thought of that Goliath might not have been the best warrior for them, but you have Goliath, who they say is their best warrior, this giant over eight feet tall, going on the battlefield and waiting for somebody to meet with him to fight, and the Israelites, all of them, go, not me.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:03

For quite a long time too, For quite long time too, I mean. That wasn't, I think, one of the things that people don't know. I think there's two things that are important context at this point is. One of them is that he didn't come out and go hey, bring your first guy who says yes to me and come out. He was there for like 40 days before anything happened, and we'll get to that story, I think.

Speaker 2: 3:20

But this was like an ongoing situation. But also, I think I had the question at one point of why would one person beating another army be the end of the war? Right, and this was actually a kind of an ancient tactic was, instead of having all of your men fight against all of your men and killing unnecessarily a lot of people, there became this war scenario in which they would say I'm going to bring my best guy, you bring your best guy, and whoever wins between those two, we skip the battle and we're going to call it a win. So that's kind of what was going on here too, right, Absolutely, it was definitely happening here.

Speaker 1: 3:53

And their best guy, this Philistine, was immense. It's scary looking somebody who you look at and you go. I don't want to fight this guy. I don't want anything to do with. I start thinking of some of the biggest people that I've met or known, some of the world's strongest men, and if you add an additional two and a half three feet to them and then put them in armor, what would that look like to me? And I'm going, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to pass on this.

Speaker 1: 4:26

I don't know if I necessarily want to go out there and risk my life, but knowing I'm gonna lose anyway, pick me, I'll go out there. Yeah, he did. Yeah, and this is a. He was overlooked by his family. David was a boy. He was not of big stature, in fact, he was small stature, couldn't, couldn't even don his own armor, and he was overlooked by his family. So now he has all of this behind him, and I say this because a lot of times when we face our giants, it's the past, it's our history that adds into that fight where we're going. I'm not good enough, I'm not big enough, I'm not something enough, because life has taught me that. And and he has all of that. That's why it's set up this way, because he is feeling the weight of him being inadequate to be on a battlefield with goliath.

Speaker 2: 5:08

But he had something goliath did not have they had the lord yes, and he had, and he had faith in that lord right and he, he believed that he could win, not on his own merit but on the faith and trust and belief in God, and that you know that ultimately is the turning point.

Speaker 1: 5:30

So here's. Here's two things I want to talk about real quick. One is probably going to take the majority of the conversation, because I was always fascinated by this and I'm curious about your point of views, guys. And then another one is a different take on the story and it's really funny because the other day, while I was preparing for this, jason had sent me a clip to hey, go look at this. It is, if you look at Johnny Lawrence as the good guy and Daniel LaRusso as the bad guy and Saved by the Bell, the same thing Zach Morris as the bad guy. It's a different way to look at the same story, and I actually have one of those for David and Goliath, so I want to bring that up again.

Speaker 2: 6:08

I can't wait to hear that. I'm thrilled to hear that.

Speaker 1: 6:11

But the first question I have is you have David who is now. He has volunteered to fight Goliath and when he goes onto the battlefield he reaches down with all the faith of the Lord, having the heart after God, and he picks up five stones instead of the one that he would need to kill Goliath. So, hey, I have the faith God's got me. He's bringing me through this. There's one guy I'm great with a slingshot, I'm grabbing a stone and hitting him and he grabbed five. Yeah, why do you guys think he grabbed five? Do you think this was a lack of faith? What was going?

Speaker 2: 6:49

on here, javi, why don't you go first?

Speaker 3: 6:52

For me you've told me this before, David, and I think most people don't know he grabbed five. How about that? I didn't know he grabbed five and I I was trying to look back. Where did it say that? Because I think initially when you read the Goliath story, it says a stone. He took one stone and that one stone knocked him out, so you figured he only had one in his bag. But yeah, I just never thought I have to say that. Why he has five? Because he usually carries around with multiple stones to fight off lions, like he has in the past to fight off other animals for his flock, a flock of sheep, because he was a shepherd.

Speaker 1: 7:32

Yeah, and I think that if you look at that time in warfare and he would have been considered in the military ranks a slinger that's what they called them. Slingers had the bags and what they would have is multiple stones in their bags or whatever would have happened. The only reason I say you know that this was different is he didn't have his bag already filled. He chose to pick up five, and there are a couple of different versions of why there are different people who've talked about this, for you know quite a long time and you know you're right is as a slinger, you would pick up multiple stones, so you're always prepared. I've also heard it, as I already kind of let it out, that there are people who feel like maybe there was, he had the faith, but he also had doubt, and man does. That hit home for a lot of us believers. And then there is Goliath's family. Hey, he had four brothers. Let's stay there for a second.

Speaker 3: 8:26

You can stay there for a second. I think you can stay there for a second right. Talking about doubt and facing oppositions like this, right, I mean, david, this little shepherd, against this eight foot tall giant, of course you're going to have some doubt. I think he walked into this battlefield knowing that the Lord was behind him. I mean, he had to convince Saul to let him in so he was ready to go into battle, and against this big Goliath. Right, his giants, right, that's where the term comes from. Right, you're going to have some kind of fear to go into this. Your life is on the line, right. But he did have confidence that the Lord was with him, walking into it and being prepared to fight this giant. And having five is almost saying like I'm going to kill you for sure. He didn't know he was going to be one. The Lord didn't say, hey, just take one stone and you're going to kill him. And then he took five. You know that's doubt to me. So I don't think he doubted, but that's my take.

Speaker 2: 9:22

What do you think, jason? I totally agree, I think I. I think it's when you read it, you know he says I'm gonna do. He's the one that comes to saul and says the lord's gonna deliver this, I've any. And he convinces him I, I killed a lion, saving the sheep. I killed a bear saving the sheep which, by the way, all that stuff is also, you know, kind of a predicate to j coming too right. So, but David says I, you know, I've done these things before. Yes, he's, you know, six cubits and a span tall, but so is a bear and I've taken care of that. So he says he can.

Speaker 2: 9:58

Then he, it does say he reaches for five stones out of the stream bed and he moves on and look, knowing you're going to be delivered from something, or knowing that God is going to do it, doesn't mean that it's going to be on the first shot. It doesn't mean that God's going to make the next step easy. It doesn't mean that you know David had no idea how it was going to go. So I think it's important just to remember, like, even if you're being called to do something and you feel confident about it, doesn't mean it's going to be easy. That's what this story teaches me.

Speaker 2: 10:25

It doesn't mean it's going to be easy. It doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared. You don't get to walk into it and go. You don't get to walk into and go. Well, god's going to deliver. I don't. I'm not even going to take any anything with me. No, no, no, no, because if the giant doesn't fall the first time, you got more chances. So that's what I found, and I also think it adds a humanity to David, because if David walked in with that amount of cockiness and a single stone, we would all have been like I don't relate to that. I don't understand what it is like to have that kind of faith.

Speaker 3: 10:55

Yeah, I think it's important that it is there. I'm glad you brought it up, david. I think it's important that it is there to have that. He walked into it with five stones. You know, like he was confident and I think it says here in 1 Samuel, 17, 45 to 46, it says this day the Lord will deliver you into my hands. This day, like I'm going to get you Today. I don't know if it's going to be one stone, maybe four, maybe the third one will get you, but I'm going to get you and I will strike you down and cut off your head. I am confident in that because the Lord is with me and that's what he feels like. You know, as he feels like the Lord was with him, I'm going to get you, this guy, somehow, some way, and I'm going to cut off your head.

Speaker 2: 11:33

Yeah, before we end this, can we talk about the fact that David, like some of the lines he says, he's poetic man, but he's poetic but you can relate to that jason.

Speaker 3: 11:52

You can relate he's, he's, he's a poet he's a writer.

Speaker 2: 11:55

He's a writer, you know like yeah, but like you read some of these, some of these lines that david had to say when he like to goli directly, you got this little dude talking to Goliath and he drops some epic talk back. It's nuts.

Speaker 3: 12:09

Yeah, yeah, there's something to be learned there, I think. Like I said, having confidence in the Lord For us all, even now, to this day, when the Lord puts something in your heart, just walk through it with confidence. You'll be scared, your palms will be a little sweaty, but just walk through it with confidence, knowing that the Lord will deliver you and your arms will be a little heavy.

Speaker 2: 12:27

Mom's spaghetti, it's going to happen, so look. David, your five stones thing is awesome though.

Speaker 1: 12:39

I can't let you not get to your five stones. I just want to. I want to. Actually, you know, one of the things that you guys both said and it's interesting because people do struggle with this is faith and preparation together, that a lot of people think that they go opposites, but really they're hand in hand. So a lot of people think if I have faith, then God will do. And part of it is movement and preparation, and both of you said that separately. Nehemiah 4.9 and then Proverbs 21.31 talks about that exactly, about being prepared, but also God is there. So, knowing that, yes, I think David did know that God was there. Maybe the five stones was preparation.

Speaker 1: 13:13

What's interesting is I have always taken the route of maybe David was a little bit doubtful, and that makes me feel good about doubting God sometimes, for sure, but also, being somebody from a Jewish descent, you know five symbolically means grace, and when I'm looking at it I'm going. Grace is what saved David and conquered Goliath on the battlefield. It was grace, it wasn't strength, it wasn't his ability to fight, it was God's grace, so grace. So for me I'm going. He picked up five exact stones and we're told five exactly, because to me it's symbolically, that means grace and that's what god used. That's beautiful. So but there are also just to give the other one, people do say that, hey, goliath had a family, four older siblings, and you know, and it would have been Goliath and the four siblings and that's why the five stones. So just to make sure I complete what people argue about, that's one of the arguments that come in.

Speaker 2: 14:14

And you've said before that some people think that because he was so large, he was one of the Nephilim. Nephilim I don't know how you say that word and there was five in total is what the? I think it was a midrashy learning and so the idea that he picked up five is actually like, uh, it's almost like an easter egg. To say goliath was nephilim and he had four brothers, like I don't know.

Speaker 1: 14:37

I like who knows if that's true, but I I, when you first time you said that, I had a little bit of the mind-blown reaction yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring my second point in the, and then we're going to talk about kind of how, what it means for today, what this means for our giants. But just here's my hot take on david and goliath. If you look at the wording used, goliath was led to the battlefield. When he's in the battlefield and david is far away, walking towards him, he said who is this guy who is carrying sticks plural. Meanwhile he only had one stick. It was his shepherd staff, that he had.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Am I a dog? You also have a giant, you. You have this giant who is out there, who apparently can't see well, who has to be led to the battlefield. And there has been medical research done saying that he might have had a disease, a, a tumor on his brain, which we know causes people to be giants and also some of the side effects of having that type of tumor is double vision, blurred vision.

Speaker 1: 15:48

He has multiple sticks versus one. Um, so now we're looking at possibly goliath, who was not well, who, who had to. He was huge, but this was somebody who actually had a tumor on his brain being walked down to the battlefield. I I know it's a hot take, but it's just one that I wanted to bring out there. Do you know where I first learned about that.

Speaker 3: 16:10

I like the idea of thinking about that in the sense of when we look at our oppositions, like we see this giant and we don't know that he's crippled, he's kind of he can't even see me. You know, he just looks gigantic, he's big, but he has no strength, right. He's barking, but he has no skills, right. So we would run away with our tail between our legs, kind of thing, because we think this giant is going to kill me without knowing that he has a tumor, he has something going on and.

Speaker 3: 16:39

I think when we look at our life now, when things are happening, like God said, move forward in this. Have confidence in that, because you don't know what's going to happen. Maybe that wall will tumble down, you know referring back to Jericho and the wall right Like, maybe the giant will fall easily by one stone, because you know I am with you. Don't worry about that. You don't know what's happening on that opposite end of that. You don't know what's going to happen on the other side of that bridge. Once I take you over that bridge, you know it could be an easy defeat.

Speaker 2: 17:10

I mean just to reword what you're saying too, to see if I'm understanding is you're saying that from the outside it looks huge, it looks terrifying and scary and I make it into a big monster, when reality he was kind of a marshmallow and you know. But I didn't know. But if I allow my senses to react to what I'm looking at, it's a big, huge monster, but in reality I'm the one who've overhyped it. Is that what you're kind of getting at?

Speaker 3: 17:40

Yeah, we make this big thing in our head about what these monsters are or these whatever we're trying to overcome and not knowing that the God of all.

Speaker 2: 17:52

Knows all and knows that it's a marshmallow saying hey you don't overcome this.

Speaker 3: 17:55

I got you, I am with you. This is small, this is nothing to me, so I got you. I'm with you. This is small, this is nothing to me, so I got you with that. Or you didn't even know what's happening with that, and that happens to me many times and fighting my fears and fighting my risk you know taking risks and stuff like that I started seeing that wait a minute, it's not that bad, it's not that. You know, it only hurt a little bit. You know it was nothing.

Speaker 2: 18:13

It looks scary, but it's not all that scary. The first time I ever read that was actually in Malcolm Gladwell's book I think it's called David and Goliath actually and it starts with that whole thing. So yeah, yeah, it's in the beginning of that book, but he talks about the fact that there's a pituitary gland or I think it's pituitary tumor or something, and that he literally was seeing double which is laid out. He's extremely oversized, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I thought that was a cool little, a cool little touch.

Speaker 1: 18:38

Yeah, and, and you know, when you start to compare it, like you said, javi, to our giants that we see today, and our giants seem completely fit and dominant and we can't get past the size of them, and then you realize that there might be something wrong with them. There might be something smaller about our giants that we didn't realize. The other thing and I believe this also comes from gladwell he talks about the, the slingshot itself and the combat orientation and typically, you know, goliath came out with a big shield and a and big armor and a big sword and he's ready for hand-to-hand combat. And here you have david who we look at just the size of him, but we realize that again, he's a slinger. He is somebody who is fighting from a distance incredibly accurate. I believe that they've measured that type of force it would be 35 meters per second, with the rock being thrown, similar to almost a 22 being shot with.

Speaker 2: 19:37

So now you have this have you ever seen videos? Have you ever seen? Videos of people who actually know what they're doing, doing this, Like when I was a kid, I used to think, oh, it's like a slingshot, and how did he possibly shoot that thing at that? And you're thinking like dink, like it just hits his head and like falls off. But you actually see a video of somebody who knows what they're doing and they're throwing this thing almost the speed of a real bullet.

Speaker 3: 19:59

And there for me it's like it's the leaning on your own strengths right, and really looking at Goliath from far, let's say right, as a hypothetical right.

Speaker 2: 20:10

Well, in this story, yes, Well, your gifts right, your gifts, not your strengths, right, right, right Looking at it from far, I go.

Speaker 3: 20:15

How can I use my strength to take this guy down? Look at it from God and go. How can I use my strength to take this guy down, right? So how can I use my strength to overcome my giants? Right, and it's all that. And I think God is so good. He knows how to use what you're good at, or use that stuff that you have in your bag right Per se, like the kids say now right.

Speaker 3: 20:33

Yeah, totally the stuff that you have in your bag, like to use it to overcome oppositions, and I love that the story has so many layers to it, which is why we're obviously discussing it.

Speaker 2: 20:41

That's a really interesting angle too, Javi. I hadn't thought about that. I mean, it's like there's a hundred ways he could have delivered him, but he does it in the ways of he could have went out and fought him with sword to sword, combat right.

Speaker 2: 20:54

He would have been destroyed and still beat him, because God could have done that. But that's not the way God works. God says what are you good at? What is your gift? What have I gifted you? And that's the way and I think it's also just a notification to people to say look, david. Everybody else said David put on this armor. Everybody else said take this sword. And David said this isn't for me. So sometimes you've got to do it your way. I mean, if God tells you it's going to happen, you have to trust. Then you have to trust that God's telling you the right way, and then you have to trust yourself that you're doing it in the way that you know best how to. So again, this story is just like everything. It's just so full right.

Speaker 1: 21:30

Yeah, love it. You know, there is when I look at the story and I start to realize what that means, because every time we look at a story like this, we're going, all right, this is great, it happened then. Even if I believe, don't believe it's symbolic, it's not, it's still something that is 3,000, 3,500 years old. What does that mean for me today? And I look at that and I go, okay, we talked about maybe your giant is not as big as we think. But when I look at, like facing your giants, the first thing that I think of is to name your giant. This isn't just hey, there's a giant and I have to slay him. It was. This is Goliath. This is a giant with a name. I've named it.

Speaker 1: 22:13

So maybe it's fear, it's addiction, it's shame. You have to name your giant before you're able to slay it, before you're able to combat it. I think that's really the first one. The second one is remembering that God is faithful in your life. You guys just said it David was never trained in the army, he was trained as a shepherd and in that training as a shepherd, he had to learn how to use a slingshot to protect his flock. So God's faithfulness was all over his life, not necessarily him.

Speaker 3: 22:47

Hey, in order to protect, I have to join the army, and all that I wanted to mention, too, david, and I think sometimes when we read these stories, you go you know what I am, david, and I could overcome the big bully at high school, kind of thing right. And we have to remember that this story, that's David's story and God used David in that way. Now, can we learn from that? Can we learn from God's character? Can we learn from David's story how he approached Goliath? Yes, and that's what we're doing today. I think we're approaching that in that kind of way. So I just wanted to mention that it's small. I think it's just a small thing for us to know when we're reading these stories and the Old Testament is full of it. It's full of these incredible stories with God doing incredible things, and we have to understand that that's what happened to those individuals. Now can we learn from that and, moving forward, of God's character, of course, just to catch up.

Speaker 1: 23:39

It's how to face your own giants. The first was to name your giant. If it's fear, addiction, shame to name it, because Goliath had a name, it wasn't just hey, there was some giant out there, so we want to name our giants. The second was to remember God's faithfulness through your life, and that was hey, david wasn't a trained army guy through your life, and that was hey, david wasn't a trained army guy, he was a trained shepherd and God used his life. We just talked about that.

Speaker 1: 24:02

And then one that the next one that I have on my list is one that you actually mentioned, jason again, without even knowing that this was on my list which was don't use somebody else's armor, don't use somebody else's work with God, because you have your own story, you have your own giftings, you have your own, and so, and then the last thing is is running towards your giant, and I think this is the one that almost everybody gets held up on. Almost everybody has the issue with is kind of like all right, great, I've identified my giant. It took me a little while and I'm not going to use somebody else's plan and I do trust God, and I'm still terrified because there's this giant in the middle of the field and I don't want to go up to him and I think it's the fear of that giant instead of running towards it, and I think that's the the very last part that we're supposed to learn from this story. That David did, which was he ran with all of that, he still said you know what? I'm running towards the giant.

Speaker 3: 24:58

Glad you said that I I can relate. I think you know I'm running towards the giant. Glad you said that I can relate. I think we speak about that all the time.

Speaker 3: 25:02

David and the stuff that I hesitate to take a step forward and want to approach and do and I make it out to be this big Goliath, this big scary thing, and I don't know, it's just like a hold that's. Maybe it's the armor that's weighing me down right when Saul puts that armor on David. Maybe that's what it is. It's the armor that's holding me down and I need to take it off and just trust the Lord that he will see me through it, that whatever I do face that he will help me to overcome it. And I don't know, I can relate to it.

Speaker 3: 25:39

I can relate to exactly that, and I think a lot of people do, about facing and running towards Goliath. I mean, the first thing you would do is not run towards Goliath. You would let me figure out a plan, let me sit down and think about it and then wait more than 40 days to attack this guy. You know, or you know what. I'll just quit and just stay right here or let him kill me or maybe turn away Like you would not like most people I feel like would not run towards Goliath.

Speaker 1: 26:04

It's not a thing you would do. No, listen. We see it in the story hundreds of thousands of Israelites standing on the battlefield and all of them are saying not me. And I think that that's really important for our lives to say listen, think that that's really important for our lives, to say listen, we understand how scary it is, but you have to run towards it. And David didn't do it with himself and he also didn't allow God to do it with him. He did it in collaboration, he did it in relationship with the Lord, and I think that that's the really important part.

Speaker 1: 26:34

Where you go, sometimes we go all right, I'm going to face this, I got this, I'm going to go forward, and you do it and you go. Man, that was brutal, that was awful, and it's because you forgot the God part. And then other people go all right, god go, take care of that for me, and they wait and they keep waiting and it's not getting fixed and they're going. Well, that didn't work either. It really isn't the combination of both that, honestly, you're able to face giants and conquer giants, that's good.

Speaker 3: 26:59

That's one thing I always say is I love that you said that that's a nice line conquering your giants. One thing I always tell people it's you know cause I've done both. I've stayed there and not moved forward in what maybe God's calling me to do. Or I feel like Goliath is very scary I can't approach that, you that. But I also have seen God's glory on the opposite side of running towards my Goliath for hypothetical.

Speaker 3: 27:27

And then one thing I always tell people is God is only going to show you one or two steps forward and you got to trust him in taking that first step. And then he's going to lead you and take the next two steps and then maybe it might be going to the other side and taking that step to the side, but he's going to show you the step by step. He's not going to show you like, hey, you're going to conquer this giant, he's going to fall, you're going to chop his head off and then you're going to be this big, great king. He did not think he was going to bring King David and we haven't gotten there yet.

Speaker 3: 27:58

But, like you know and I think that's what it is we have to trust the fact that, god, I'm going to walk together with you, hand by hand. Take this first step, be confident in that, and wherever it goes, it's going to go. And then the next step, I'm going to do the same thing. So, coming together in unity with God. I love that. You said that, david. That's exactly.

Speaker 1: 28:17

Yeah, and the what's really cool is the very last thing that happens, because we look at David and Goliath and sometimes we see the first part of the clip which is, you know, david hits him the slingshot and he wins and it's you know, it's wonderful and and all of that, but what happens afterwards is he actually runs up, takes the sword and cuts Goliath's head off. And I really think that's beautiful and symbolic as well for us facing our fears, because sometimes we will dip a toe into the fear, into the fear. I'm gonna throw a rock from here and then, if it knocks him down, great, but maybe he was just unconscious. What david did after that was I'm still now gonna run right up to him, I'm gonna go face to face with the giant and to cut his head off to end it for good, so I know I don't have to have this fear again.

Speaker 1: 29:03

I think this, the symbology of that is so beautiful, of with our fears, it's not just knocking it with a rock, it's making sure that it is really dead, and I think that that's the most important thing. Actually, with jason here, I'm hoping, because I think this is right right up his alley, what I just said. So you want to repeat it? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 29:21

So, jason, you know one of the things I look this is right right up his alley, what I just said, so you want to repeat it?

Speaker 2: 29:23

yeah yeah, so, jason, you know, one of the things I look at is not only to the boundless bible my name is david, with a rock in the head, but afterwards david runs up and cuts his head off with the sword.

Speaker 1: 29:33

yes, and when I look at fears, I'm going that how often do we hit a fear from far away, going, all right, I'm just going to throw a rock at it and and see what happens? But David actually ran straight up face to face with the giant. At that point the giant could have just been knocked out and woke up, who knows. But he ran right up and made sure this fear, this giant, is going to be done and I love the symbology of that.

Speaker 2: 29:58

I do too. I mean, I love the fact that he did what he came to do. He made sure he finished the job, and then he used the finishing of that job later towards the other rule. You know, he said, look, I did this, and I did it because of my God, and so he used it as a testimony as well as using it as a, you know, proof point.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Yeah, yeah, I love it. This is such a great story of conquering and conquest and facing your fears, and I think that sometimes what we do is we look at it just as this cliche of hey we're, you know David and Goliath, this is the underdog story. This is used all it's almost like the word love. It's used so much you sometimes lose the meaning of what this is. You forget about it.

Speaker 2: 30:43

Yeah, yeah, the other thing that's never talked about too. I mean, you brought up the Goliath. Maybe wasn't all their story, but what about the story of Saul in this? I mean, the story of Saul in this is ultra important. He was anointed by God, he was the chosen one, so to speak. Right? I mean, the Israelites had said we want a king, we want a king, we want a king. And God said no, you should not have a king, you should not have a king, this is not good for you. And they continued to say we want a king. And so he said fine, I'll give you a king.

Speaker 2: 31:17

First of all, I think that's an interesting enough story, right, the fact that you know if God has enough love for us to say if you're going to be this obstinate, eventually you're going to get what you want. But here's what it's going to be, and it's going to end up being Saul. So he anointed Saul. Saul was the anointed one and he began to do bad things. Even though he was anointed, he began to do bad things and he ultimately lost his mind for it and he lost his position and his anointing and all those things. So I think that it's important to remember that David rose because of his faith. Saul descended because of his lack of faith, and I know that we like to talk a lot about the fact that we're always once, we love God, we're always in a good place, but there's a lot of like. You need, look, you need to live up to that faith.

Speaker 3: 32:04

You need to live up to it or else.

Speaker 2: 32:05

Right, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 32:07

No, no, I'm sorry to cut you off. It's just like I was so excited about that because you brought up Saul and I just feel like there's a lot there from his descent, right, from him being the anointing taken away from him, right, like his spirit was taken away. It said right and totally he had like these bad spirits and they. That's the reason why even david came to his court to kind of, you know, to make him feel better, because everything was taken away from him and what I've, what I've gotten from saul, which was very interesting in first samuel, 15, 11, and it jumps over to 22 and 23. It talked, you know, to me. What I got out of. It was saul disobeyed god and what god was saying is like sacrifice. He was trying to sacrifice animals and that's why god felt like you're disobeying me, you. The disobeying god is worse than sacrifice and I think sometimes people go hey, I did wrong, hey, wrong.

Speaker 3: 33:01

Hey, I'm sorry God, but you knew already. God already told you not to do that and you still did it. That disobeying is worse than sacrifice. And it says here, it goes in 1 Samuel 15, 11,. It goes I regret that I had made Saul king, which is weird, because God regretted it, because he has turned away from me and he has not carried out my instructions. And then it jumps over and goes does samuel replied? Does the lord delight in burn offering and sacrifices, as much as in this, as much?

Speaker 3: 33:30

as in obedience in obeying the lord to obey is better than sacrifice, and that's what he says and I I think that's key, that's key for a lot of us to know that you know, when god's calling you to do something and I've been there before don't disobey him. It's better than sacrifice. It obeying the heart of God. They weren't obeying the goodness of God.

Speaker 2: 33:50

They weren't obeying in those ways, and that's why he said you know, you're whitewashed tombs, you're dead on the inside and yet you look beautiful on the outside. And so it was another condemnation of ritual over expression. And this is what happened to Saul too, and you know a totally different episode. But you know, david ends up becoming unfaithful later and he doesn't lose the favor of God, and so maybe that's the good cliffhanger to leave this on so we can have a David episode later. But you know, this is the difference Saul loses his favor and he loses it because you know he loses it because he doesn't obey, and David screws up but he still obeys, and that's a really small detail. But again, that's for another episode.

Speaker 1: 34:49

Yeah, and I also think when you look at Saul, when you guys bring that up, you guys are going really deep into how he lost the anointing. I look at Saul and what I think of is, hey, we just talked about hundreds of thousands of Israelites that didn't want to move forward and fight Goliath, and I'm saying, well, because their anointed one, if you're going to believe in God, the one who got anointed, he was terrified, he wasn't going forward, he didn't have the faith anymore. And I think, seeing that you're going wait a minute, if you're the anointed one and you're scared, what does that mean for me? Where David then had all of this faith and came forward, and I think that really speaks also to us.

Speaker 1: 35:27

In fear, where we go, who's that person who we really look up to, and we go, wait a minute if you're afraid that I need to be, and David's like, no, I don't, I have God. He's much bigger than the fear. He's much bigger than even my. The person I look up to, the person who's taught me, the person who's been there for me, he's even bigger than that person and that's sometimes that that's breaking the chains of of your family's history. That's breaking the chains, the bonds of, I mean man, it's just, it's so filled with just a symbolic, wonderful story of defeat Anytime I hear about it. Like I said, I've never thought about it that way and now you guys mentioned I'm going how beautiful is that? The fact that Saul also represents that as well.

Speaker 3: 36:12

Yeah, yeah. We need a David in our life, I think, and sometimes when things are going wrong or bad I'm here, I need a David.

Speaker 2: 36:19

I need a David in my life.

Speaker 3: 36:21

I always need David. I need David. I should be a hero, but we all need a David in our life.

Speaker 3: 36:27

I feel like what you were saying right now David is. David represents the encouragement, the hope of things. Sometimes when things looking desolate, right, or you lose somebody in your life, having that somebody around you that's encouraging, that knows, hey, the Lord is with us, you'll be able to overcome this. We all need that and I think David was that. And this terrible time of Saul was withered away, he was losing his mind. The whole Israelites were scared of this big guy. It was 40 days of them in fear and David was like, no, I'm good, I got this. Days of them in fear. And David was like, no, I'm good, I got this, I got this for our greater good, for our tribe, our culture right, and we all need somebody like that. And I think if you are that, and sometimes in a troubled time, I think step forward, step forward in confidence in God and to give hope to others and stuff. So that's what I heard you say, david, and I think that's I see that in that story.

Speaker 1: 37:23

That sounds good. If I said that, go for it.

Speaker 2: 37:27

So, guys, like I said, this is always enlightening. Especially, I love these Old Testament stories, or, even more so, the ones that everybody knows. You know, david and Goliath is one of those stories that everybody, even you know. Secular people know the story of David and Goliath, but they don't really sit and understand the depths of it. They don't know the context, the history, the whys, the so forth and so on. I think it's so valuable to be able to do that, so this has been fun. There's so much more to talk about David, though, but that'll be another day. So, guys, thank you for your time. Thank you for your consistent listening. We appreciate your likes, comments, shares. We love your reviews on any of your listening platforms and we hope that we get some great feedback from you soon. We'll talk to you next time. Thank you, have a blessed week, see you.