David: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro, hey, I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason Holloway.

David: 0:13

Welcome back to the Boundless Bible, guys. How's it going? We are lovely Today. I am super excited. Let me just set the stage. So one of the things I do is I volunteer at a youth group at church and now I say youth group but these are now two young adults because they are moving up from their senior year to college. But there are two people that I had met who absolutely blew me away. They're brilliant. They love the Lord. Everything they do is just amazing and in a real Christlike fashion. Do is just amazing in a real Christ-like fashion. So we had decided that we'd love to invite them on and get a youth perspective of some of the stories that we talk about. So today we have Tucker and Bicky. How's it going, guys?

Tucker: 0:54

It's great. How are you?

David: 0:56

Doing well.

Vicky: 0:57

Bicky, how are you? I'm very good, thank you.

David: 0:59

Good. So before we start just to kind of get some cobwebs out, I'm going to ask you a simple question. Do you like?

Tucker: 1:09

Old or New Testament more Well, the thing is, I think New Testament is a lot more practical, time-based-wise, whereas the Old Testament is more like the, I guess, stories that show the morals that we learn in the New Testament, as well as the Gospels and Acts and stuff like that. But I like reading the New Testament. I just think it's more practical for daily use. Okay.

Vicky: 1:28

I can completely agree with Tucker on that. Yeah, I lean more towards the New Testament, usually All right.

David: 1:36

That's good. So today we're going to go over the story of Daniel. One of the really cool things is Daniel actually started off as a teenager when he was taken to Babylon. So before I actually explain the story, I'm just going to kick it off to you guys. Why don't you tell us a little bit about Daniel and the story of Daniel, and what you know and what you don't know? No, pressure, let's start there, no pressure.

Tucker: 2:05

Yeah, honestly, I just think it's a really beautiful story because it's four friends who were taken to a secular land and they were all of the royal bloodline as well, which is why they were picked for being, you know, part of what the king wanted, you know, as servants that would teach him the culture and stuff of their land. So I think it's just really interesting how they were brought into such a secular culture. You know, it was like the leading secular culture of the day and it reminds me a lot of our own culture and it's just really cool how they managed to stay strong and not really worry about it but instead just pray and trust in God the entire time as well.

David: 2:31

Agreed.

David: 2:32

I love the fact that he glossed right over it, but that is actually something that most people don't know is that Daniel probably came from the Royal line for him to be in the court, to be trained in that way, probably meant that he had some sort of training that put him there, and that would have been a royal line. So you know, vicki, let me ask you, you know, being that these were teenagers that were brought from their home to a foreign land and they were refusing to live that way, what does that mean to you were?

Vicky: 3:04

refusing to live that way. What does that mean to you? So when, when you put it that way specifically, I would think like how I could relate it to maybe like a teenager's life, or like something that I've been through personally was like moving new school, like moving to a new school, something like that. I did that my freshman year. I moved from Hialeah to Broward County. So, um, yeah, and I right before, um, right before ninth grade, I was actually heavily in my word, but then the new people that I met going into my school, they automatically like strayed me away from that and I think I think if I would have read Daniel previously, like during that time of my life, I think it would have shown me like that I have my own identity in Christ and that the people around me do really influence. And I should have yeah, I should have stuck with that, yeah, yeah, you know.

David: 4:11

What's interesting is another fact that a lot of people don't know is that you know, daniel was also respected in this court in Babylon. It wasn't as though he was respected in his land back in Israel, but, you know, when you look at him in Babylon, he was respected, respected and one of the people that respected him with the zoroastrian priests, um, and what these a lot of scholars believe these became were the magi um. So he would have been teaching them um about the prophecies and they would have been waiting for the messiah. Oh, wow, um. So when?

David: 4:41

you look at the new testament, the magi who were looking for this. This would have originally come from Daniel and him holding fast to his beliefs and things like that. So, yeah, it definitely is one of those cool things where, if you hold to your belief the way Daniel did, you never know the influence that you can have. You're talking about influence you know a thousand years later. Totally, you planted the seed right for the Magi to do it, and now we have the story of Jesus and how he was found, which is pretty amazing.

Javi: 5:08

I think your point too was that it's important who you surround yourself right and it's important that Daniel wasn't the only person in the story. He also had my three favorite named people in the Bible Shadrach, meshach and Abednego.

Javi: 5:19

But I love that he had them around him as well. It wasn't just him. I love that he had them around him as well, it wasn't just him. I mean, you have to be steadfast to your belief, right, you have to be, you have to be, you have to, you have to. It's you and God against the world, right In some cases, but in in this case he also had a community. He had a community of people who came with him from the, from the old country. He got to watch them succeed by going through the fire and then that's another step for him to just have that extra faith. It's just that, another, another way to speak about community.

David: 5:48

Yeah, that's cool. That's another way of saying right, Iron shopper, iron kind of thing Right, especially in the fire. Right. It says here in Daniel what one 17,. It says to these four young men, god gave knowledge and understanding of all kinds of literature and learning. Yeah, so they were all you know that maybe not the same level, maybe there were, but at least they were able to talk about god, talk about the learnings, talk about different things, and they were able to just be in the same accord, which I think is valuable.

Tucker: 6:17

I think that's a cool point and speaking of you know how you you really like those three names. I think that really shows the culture of the time as well, how, um, yeah, the four of them, their names were changed from Daniel to Belshazzar, and then Hananiah, azariah and Mishael were all changed to basically the opposite of what their names have been, because it really shows how they completely wanted to stamp out the culture that they were from, but they just couldn't manage it.

Javi: 6:43

Yeah, and the meaning of those names actually has other meaning too. I don't want to go into that yeah. The meaning, the meanings in the in the Babylonian means something. It's the God. I think it refers to certain gods. I think Mithra was one of them.

David: 6:55

Well, in Hebrew, their names Daniel is God is my judge. Hananiah would have been yahweh is gracious. Michelle is um, pretty much is what god is it is, which means nobody can ever compare to god, right, um? And then azria is uh, yahweh is help, um.

Javi: 7:11

So you're talking about four people who were named properly for a purpose right and then and then tried to have that name stamped out in the secular culture well, not secular culture, the other religious culture, to be honest, and you know, for the sake of dismissing those previous names, I mean this is the names in the Bible alone like what they mean and how they set up stories. There's so many things that they're adding into the story. I love it All right, so I digress. No, no, so you know.

David: 7:36

You now have Daniel, who and his three friends who refuse to live the way that the Babylonians are living and his three friends who refuse to live the way that the Babylonians are living. They refuse to eat their food, the meat in the court. They refuse to drink the wine, they just want vegetables. And you see that God provides for them and they are healthier than the people who are actually eating the meat and wine. The Daniel fast.

Javi: 7:58

Is that really what the Daniel fast is about?

David: 8:01

Well, I don't think it's there, I think it's when he goes to the den or something.

David: 8:05

well, I'm jumping ahead no, he did, he did fast and and uh pray, but that was during darius that was later on.

Vicky: 8:11

Yeah, right now we're not at that point we're not there.

David: 8:13

I want to um but, yes, you have this really incredible story of four people defying, uh a, you know, a ruler that rule over them, get them from their home. Yeah, um, let me ask you guys, what does that mean to you? To disobey, knowing that you're actually following God, but maybe disobeying the world?

Tucker: 8:35

Yeah, it just means, honestly, that sometimes there are people in this world who just don't follow God's plan, basically. But we have to be strong, even whenever we're in the position where we're under the authority of people who don't follow God's plan basically. But we have to be strong even whenever we're in the position where we're under the authority of people who don't accept it. You know, jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's. And again, david and Saul.

Tucker: 8:53

Like David still respected Saul because he was the Lord's anointed, even though he didn't agree with what Saul was doing and, let's be honest, god didn't either, which is why Saul was eventually put out of his place. But we still have to respect these people and act with love towards them, even if we aren't following what they want for us. Like you know, if David followed what Saul wanted for him, david would have died in the court. But David still respected Saul and loved him and, again, wouldn't touch him, even to the point of just cutting off a bit of his robe and repenting for it. But he still respected him and acted in love towards Saul. And that eventually, well, at one point it changed Saul's heart. And then Saul went back to being Saul, of course. But you know, we just we have to not conform but be, I guess, in the world so that people can see us, see how we've been changed by Christ and maybe be, you know, convinced by our good deeds and glorify our father in heaven.

David: 9:48

Vicki, let me ask you, you know cause? You just mentioned the story about how you were following the world instead of Jesus and and obviously you had some thoughts about that and saying, man, I should have followed the Lord. But now that you're following the Lord fully, what advice would you give to somebody who is struggling with that, who's going hey, the world is looking really really good right now and you're asking me to follow the Lord, what advice would you give them if they're looking to stray?

Vicky: 10:17

I mean, there are plenty of times where I have fallen, and every time I fall I just have to run back to the Lord because because there's nothing like him, like nothing like truly nothing can ever satisfy besides him, and when you fall away from him you absolutely just feel empty. You think that you may be lacking something that the world can give you, but it won't satisfy.

Javi: 10:37

All the glitters is not gold right.

Vicky: 10:38

Yeah, definitely.

David: 10:40

That's good. Now we're going to kind of jump into. You have the three friends, um, they are love the guys. They are still denying following the laws and the rules that babylon wants them to follow.

Javi: 10:56

Um, and they get tossed into a furnace, a fiery furnace and it should be noted that it's seven times hotter than, which is, by the way, not realistic or possible, but yeah seven times.

David: 11:11

It might have been the same flame with the burning bush. I mean really hot well, that's.

Javi: 11:15

That's actually one of the illusions there. Right is the fact that the, that the the flames are engulfing something without destroying that thing, so there's an illusion to the burning bush, right there.

David: 11:25

So we have the three friends tossed in and then a fourth image emerges. Tell me, guys, what you guys, everybody here, you know what you think. Who is this Cause there's? There is debate over who this fourth figure is that goes in with them. What do you guys think?

Javi: 11:41

I mean, there's an easy answer here.

Tucker: 11:43

Easy answer for the for the for the last easy answer. I view it in the same way as Jacob's angel Lord. You know, I think it's Christ just incarnate before in his glorified form, just as he appeared on the mountain with a couple of his disciples.

Vicky: 11:56

I agree.

Javi: 11:58

Easy, yeah, look, I mean Jesus is the one that comes to Christian's mind, right, the Jewish people would have thought that it was an angel of the Lord, and I think both of those can be the same thing. I say a lot on this podcast. It's not this or that, sometimes this and that, and I think this is a this and that moment, right, like even if the angel was Jesus in that moment, the people who were seeing it wouldn't have understood it as Jesus. So to them it was an angel. An angel, and to future generations who had the opportunity to have more information, more backstory, their back knowledge, it becomes jesus yeah.

Tucker: 12:32

Something really interesting, though, is whenever king nebuchadnezzar saw this image, he said wow, it's something like this a son of the gods.

Javi: 12:39

Yes, the word, the word, son right, yeah, is that what it says in hebrew? I'm actually in Hebrew, does it actually?

David: 12:44

say the word son, yeah, or is this a bit of a no the?

Javi: 12:46

translation is correct. Translatorism where they were like eh son, sounds good there.

David: 12:51

Nope, nope, the translation is correct and he does. He sees this as a divine person inside with them, which leads me to another question, which is where did Daniel go?

Javi: 13:08

Javi, that's good pointing at you uh, why my ecumenical bible says that it was likely that that story was actually added later, that it was a tradition story, and that it was later because, by the way, the book of Daniel was written over like 600 years. Right, it was like started in like the six uh 600s, I think over 400 years, think between 600 and 130 BC or something like that. And so you know, the story does evolve over time based on the writing styles, the languages. Even part of this was written in Aramaic, if you read that part. So this story they're saying because of the fact that Daniel's not in it, it looks like this was a standalone story. That was also same, you know, same background, same context, but at some point they just folded together with the same for me what I get out of it right away.

David: 14:00

It's daniel was the one that was interpreting dreams. He was valuable to nebuchadnezzar, where the other three didn't really bring anything extra, in a sense. Um so for them not buying down, not giving into the babylonian way, they threw them in the furnace where daniel was. I'm gonna hold on to this guy because this guy can interpret dreams. That's fair.

David: 14:26

Yeah, he's useful yep, because he was useful and they were like well no, no furnace, for According to the Midrash and the Talmud, he was actually on a trip that the royal court sent him on a trip, okay, and that's where he was. So he was communicating with other places that needed his communication style. Oh, interesting. So he actually wasn't there when they were thrown in. If he was, he would have been thrown in. I don't think it would have made a difference to their saving grace of not being consumed by the fire, right, uh? But again, now we have three different thoughts of where daniel was. But, um, he definitely was not there, uh, and it's just always interesting because when you start to look into it, you know where where are these people, you know where were his three friends later on, when daniel was thrown the lion's den, and you start to think about these things.

Javi: 15:14

Well, look, that's really what happens to us in our lives too. Right, we have our. As I said earlier, you have your community, your community's around you, but they're not always there when you need them.

David: 15:24

Right.

Vicky: 15:25

Ouch.

Javi: 15:25

But they're not. And I don't mean that in a bad way, I don't mean like, oh, they heard something went wrong and they eschewed you and ran the other direction. I'm just saying sometimes they're just not there. Sometimes it's a battle you got to fight yourself.

David: 15:37

Are either of you familiar with the dream that Daniel had translated for Nebuchadnezzar?

David: 15:46

Weren't there multiple.

Javi: 15:46

There were.

Tucker: 15:49

There were, but particularly the golden head one. The statue, yeah, the statue, definitely why?

David: 15:53

don't you tell us about?

Tucker: 15:54

it.

Javi: 15:54

I'm not that familiar, I was going to say that's a lot of details. There's four different kinds of metals. The last one wasn't gold.

Tucker: 16:01

At the top it's like silver below, and then I want to say bronze all I remember is it ends on iron and clay bronze stone and clay bronze, stone and clay.

Javi: 16:12

Thanks for correcting me so.

David: 16:14

I think, but when you look at at this dream, you look at all the different dreams. Um, they all have a similarity. Yeah, and why don't you talk about the similarity more than the particular dream?

Tucker: 16:25

I mean honestly the same thing is. It's just Nebuchadnezzar, like well, obviously he's having the dream interpreted for him. So it's partially, you know, due to him. Just in the second one, where he was going to be, I think it was a great tree that was cut down by something of the Lord. I don't remember exactly. But basically it's all just Nebuchadnezzar's pride blinds him to the crumbling of, I guess, his empire. You know he has a mighty empire. He has a great golden head in one, he has a big tree in another, but God is so powerful that he's going to break that down, even though by worldly standards, you know that's an empire that'll never fall.

David: 17:03

The empire, I think came down because of the sun, really His sun, yeah his sun.

Javi: 17:10

I was like wait, we have one son. We have one son, sorry, nebuchadnezzar's son.

David: 17:15

It was. It came Balthazar, I think it was. Yeah, yeah, oh, there you go. So yeah, I think it came down because of him, but yeah.

David: 17:23

Nebuchadnezzar goes crazy, and Well, because on, so he, which is why it's his son who doesn't accept, who become, who stays prideful, yeah, um, where the kingdom actually comes down, god knows it, and he says, okay, now he's sending in the persians who are going to take over, right, um, so it it is. You know, when you look at nebuchadnezzar, you go, okay, he was this ruler, um, but was it really that bad he? He had given room in his court for the captives, yeah, um, he listened to one of them eventually, um, so this is to me, is is not a bad ruler, right, um, but it is somebody who, uh, I mean he he was brutal.

David: 18:05

I'm not saying he's a good guy.

David: 18:06

I wouldn't, go hanging out with him um, but as far as rulers be fair.

Javi: 18:10

He's really nice if you're in his upper court and things are good Everybody else had it garbage, but you know, that's just the way that works.

David: 18:17

But what ends up happening is sometimes and this is a question also about the world it appeals to some people. You go hey, in your court, I get meat and wine, I get. All I have to do is, you know, is bow to you or your God, but I get all these other things.

Javi: 18:35

I think it's the great temptation I was going to say how, how much like the real world's that all you have to do is everything I tell you to do and you're going to be fat and happy and drunk and you're going to have women all around and things are going to be great.

Javi: 18:47

All good, no, it's cool, just do what I say. And you're like, oh, I like women and and drinks and drugs and alcohol, and like I like that kind of thing. Like, and you're so driven by your, by your flesh and by your synapse and by your hormones and by your, that we're not stopping and saying, like I should be following God, Like I shouldn't be tempted, like this.

David: 19:05

It's a great temptation. So and that's my question is, how do you stop, when you have that temptation of nothing, that that is appearing to you as harmful? In the beginning it seems like actually fun. How do you?

David: 19:18

stop when I was difficult for the world to, not for the world, but it's difficult that the world off of these things, and if you don't do it, you're the Ottoman, you're the outcast. Yeah, You're the outcast. You're the. You're the four. You're the outcast. You're the. You're the four.

David: 19:32

You're daniel and his friend I can't say their names, so daniel and his friends you know, you're them four, you know, and that wants to like look at you guys, you guys getting ridiculed, you guys, right, different, you know. Or like modern day right, you're a christian, you're walking around with this cross, you're kind of weird and you, you know, maybe you smell funny, no, but I'm joking. I'm joking but like you know, those things that could be very hard, especially as a youth, as a young adult.

Javi: 19:54

Right, still trying to find your place.

David: 19:55

You know what.

David: 19:56

I'm still going to hold on to what I believe Totally, because I think God has a better plan. God, his way, is sovereign, is better rather than what the world offers. How do you guys navigate?

David: 20:07

that.

Vicky: 20:07

So, like, the one thing that I've been told throughout my life, when I've asked that question for myself, is remember, like, remember how he's helped me before, remember, like the pain that I have gone through that he's lifted me out of. And like seeing the things that he does all around us, reading the Bible, seeing what he's done for others.

Tucker: 20:27

So yeah, my thing would be remember, I mean me personally, I learned the hard way.

Tucker: 20:33

I was. I was an atheist until about a year and a half ago. You know, I'd grown up in the church but I never really had faith and then I just completely lost it, thought it was stupid and I tried all the things of the world. You know like I had some fun, I thought, man, this is great, but at the same time I was crippled by anxiety, depression. You know all the things of the world that people talk about, how good they are, you know you eventually get disillusioned to. You know how good they truly are, and I think that's a big testament to how we were created, you know, because we weren't created for the things of this world. We were created to worship God. We were created for something bigger than anything that the world has to offer. So eventually, you know, I'm not saying, try the world and if you don't like it, come to Christ, but I'm saying I have tried the world and I liked it, but it ruined me and I realized, yeah, sin is fun for a season, but God is great for all time.

Javi: 21:26

Yeah, yeah. I think it's amazing how quick we can desensitize to the thing the first time we do that sinful thing and we go, oh, this is fun, but the second time it's not as fun and you got to do more of it, and the next time you got to do more and like there's, there's, we're. We're infinitely unsatisfiable creatures. With things of the world we're infinitely unsatisfiable. There's no amount of fame or Instagram presence or, or you know literally any number of you know sinful things. There's no, none of them are satisfied.

Javi: 21:51

You've been down that road and you said you know, I'm not telling people to go do these sins and then find God, but the reality is most people have done them, whether they tried or not right, whether they've indulged themselves in things before, and they found that there's just no good at the end of that. There's no light at the end of that tunnel. There's far more darkness in the end of that tunnel. And when you do what, like you said, to remember, when you remember the peace that you have with God, when you remember the kindness that you feel for others because God has been kind to you, when you feel what it's like to forgive others because God has forgiven you for the things that you've screwed up. That remembrance is everything and it's just like founding, literally fundamental, like founding purposes in your life and holding onto those. And it's a huge thing. And that's what daniel did. We're pulling it back right. That's that's what daniel did.

David: 22:35

Daniel never let go of his fundamentals yeah, I'm gonna say, I always say it's uh, temptation is temporary and only when you let go is when you're really living it's true and I and I feel like with when you do those things, when you let go of that and you follow the faith, it's also good just like Daniel has his friends to find a community that is like-minded, a community that's grounded in God, that you'll be able to also grow from and feel okay, that you're all letting go of that temptation, you're all walking the same path and trying your best to do that and not feel outcast and really find a community in that. I think we all need it. I think God made us for relationships and when we dive into further our faith, the more we need to build those relationships of people that are like-minded.

David: 23:24

What's amazing to me is, you know, I sit here as a man with a white beard and it's easy for me to look back and go yes, you need to give up the sin, you need to follow the Lord, you need to do these things.

David: 23:34

I'm also at the point in my life where peer pressure is almost nothing. It doesn't really exist in my world anymore. But I'm looking at two people who are teenagers who, like Daniel whether he was 14 to 18, they have him estimated at had this conviction that I did not have in my, in my teens. Um, and it's a much different world now. I think it's even harder now. Oh yeah, so I'm, I'm amazed at Daniel's conviction. But then, looking at you guys, you know it's one of the main reasons I want you here is just to just to hear the conviction that you have, um, still kind of growing into who you're going to be and what this world has to offer, and saying you know what, I know what this world has to offer and it has to offer God, and that's where I've, you know, that's where I've directed my life.

David: 24:19

Amen, Um, it's, it's amazing, Um yeah, with the stuff that's going on now, with the distraction of like everything, of like just content everywhere, it's like it just throws you off so much. And not only that, it's, it's not only it's a lot, it's everywhere and it's just full of information. Which is great, I think, is we're living in a really great time. But you also got to discern. You also got to really know what. What are you reading, what are you hearing? Even this podcast, like the stuff that we say, I think is good for someone to take it in, chew on it and really you know, understand that. You know what's, what's right, what's wrong, whatever it is not saying that we say anything wrong, but just really discern for yourself and seek god and all those things if I could play that game too.

Javi: 25:02

I mean, I think the challenge that you guys have now is that there is so much noise yeah, there's so much noise and there's so much distraction from the truth. And, like you said you, you know it yourself. Vicky, you said I, I know what I felt when I was in my word, I know what I felt and I, and that's what I hold on to. And the problem is, it's really hard to hold on to something when you're trying to grab it. A hundred other things, when, when, when you can't keep both hands on on on a precious item, when your hands are also trying to grab out and grab other things. And so, whether it's a podcast, whether it's being in your word, whether it's being around others, whether it's being in Bible studies or groups, or even just surrounding yourself with people who help you to keep your hands around, that thing is so important as you guys move forward, because if you don't, there's a whole lot to grab for.

Tucker: 25:50

Oh yeah, I think you guys were talking about how it's more difficult in our current culture to follow God, and I think maybe not instead of that, but as well as that, it's very different than how it was, because we have so much access to information now that we can True, I think so many people are being, you know, turned off from, I guess, the worldly things in that people are seeing. You know how bad it gets like you know I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say here, but like fentanyl is being added to drugs. You know so many addicting things that are just terrible. They kill you and it's so quick as well, and it can be, you know you go from a happy, you know, 19 year old one day to a dead one and five hours later no way and we're just getting disillusioned with the world.

Tucker: 26:37

But at the same time, a big spirit of laziness has been overcoming the world. I this might surprise you guys, because you guys aren't super like I I mean, you have kids, so whatever but I know a lot of people who don't have any hobbies other than scrolling. I know a lot of people who don't spend time outside, don't spend time. You know, sometimes, in God's word, whenever they're around people they do these things, but they don't have a single hobby and if you're not with them, if they're by themselves, they're not going to do anything but scroll the internet and look at this stuff and see how other people live. And man, hey, I really want to be a part of that, but they're so lazy that they're not willing to do it and I think that was a big problem and it still is a big problem with myself. You know, just, laziness is the spirit of this generation.

David: 27:28

Interesting.

Javi: 27:29

Yeah, it's one of the seven deadly sins. Right, laziness and sloth is one of the deadly sins. I mean, and this is why I heard somebody say recently I think it was Cliff Nectal I love that dude I think he said that you know, laziness is a sin against God, because you're essentially saying that you haven't given me anything worth going out and looking for or worth looking out and going for. I can't take credit for that one, tim, but but. But it's solid, because I never realized that you're really saying, like, we're sitting in here right now.

Javi: 27:57

Right, we're in this room and I'm looking outside and there's a lake and there's birds, and there's trees, and there's a, and there's there's grass, and I could go play golf right now or riding a bike. I mean, there's a hundred things I could do. So me sitting in here obviously I'm having a podcast right now, but if I'm sitting here scrolling to my phone, I'm basically saying none of that's important, none of that is beautiful, none of that's good, none of that's worth it. It's just I'd rather be sitting here looking at other people doing their things instead of me doing it. And so I hear that.

David: 28:24

I hear that I'm um and then we're going to kind of move really quickly into also what I see some of the youth doing right now. So the ones that are not lazy are really getting into these movements.

Javi: 28:34

The ones that are not lazy are not lazy.

David: 28:36

What a segue they're getting into movements, they're actually moving and doing something. You see, you know the Hope for Revivals and things like that, daniel, under Darius um, when he gets tossed into the lion's den, which, by the way, uh, you know, we have now moved closer to my age than when he started, because then, now, estimating him to be out 70 years old, oh really, oh.

Tucker: 28:59

So like your exact age, I appreciate that.

Javi: 29:03

But no, I mean, if he's your size. Now I understand why the lions didn't go after him.

Tucker: 29:12

They. Why the?

David: 29:13

lions didn't go after him. They would be scared of you or very brittle. I don't want the old scale, but no, what ends up happening is a lot of people think that Daniel is still a youth when he gets tossed in a lion's den.

David: 29:19

He's actually probably around 70 years old, based on how long these kings would have reigned. So, right at the end, where Daniel's about 70 years old Darius tells all the decree was that everyone had to bow to darius, and what daniel did is he went back to his room, window open, uh, pointed towards jerusalem and he prayed. And he could have prayed in private there's nothing against levitical law about him praying in private um, but he prayed publicly and this was a movement. This was him defying darius publicly. Um, and now I'm asking you guys for, for those that are not lazy in your generation, um, who's picking up? You know really their, their, their stance and saying listen, we want a movement, we want to uh share the gospel, we want to uh do what Daniel didn't, just really dig into their faith. Um, what are you guys seeing in your generation? What are you guys talking about? What are some of those conversations that happen about you know, kind of following Daniel and saying, no, we're putting our foot down publicly.

Vicky: 30:18

The first thing that comes to my mind is like when we used to do first priority in school, you would get kids every day praying, asking for boldness. Right, because we all want to make an effort in our schools, right, to start just being more bold and saying, hey, look like you look sad, you need some help. Like I know something that can help you, right, like so yeah, boldness immediately comes to my mind when I hear like teenagers wanting to start a movement. They're praying for that. They're asking God to just give them the words to speak.

Tucker: 30:56

I'm going to sound really nerdy when I say this, but in our culture today we notice a lot of people saying, hey, live your truth, you know. So what I try to do, which is always a ton of fun whenever I'm talking to people, because I meet a lot of people and they say something I'm like, really you don't believe that, but I like setting the philosophical foundations for objective, absolute truth, and I think whenever people accept that, it becomes really simple to, whenever you set that foundation, you can then set the foundation of Christ as well. So I like setting movements where, you know, I get people talking about that kind of stuff, whether it's, you know, evangelists like myself or just anybody who wants to talk to other people in any situation like that. You know, I was back before. I lived in Florida.

Tucker: 31:56

I was surrounded by people whom I considered incredibly smart, and none of them were believers in Christ, and that really changed me and I became an atheist I don't want to say because of it, but that was definitely a big factor. An atheist, I don't want to say because of it, but that was definitely a big factor. And so I think whenever we're surrounded by people who they seem so smart, so worldly, you know, like worldly wisdom. You know, think of John Bunyan's, you know he sounded so great but at the same time he leads people astray, and I think that's what worldly wisdom does. So if we set absolute truth and then present the evidence, I think it just becomes really easy to start a movement where people see that it has value and that it can be used Totally.

David: 32:35

Yeah, I like that, I love that you guys do that. I think the bonus of having that at your age to go out and do that I think I see Daniel in that. As you see in the story, Daniel is faithful, he's not going to go against his God and God blesses that. He protects them, he watches over them, there's provision over them and he takes care of them right. And I think you guys could rest assured and even for us, any Christian out there could rest assured that when we stand up for what we believe towards God and just kind of like really doing our best to follow God, in that sense, God will bless it, God will bless us in our path.

David: 33:13

There will be ups and downs, as we see in the story with Daniel. I mean, being in the lion's den is a scary thing, but coming out of it wow, you could really. You can't. You can only bless God for that right. You can only go well. God can only do that. We even see that with Nebuchadnezzar right. You can only go well, God can only do that. We even see that with Nebuchadnezzar right. When the guys go into the furnace and they come out, Nebuchadnezzar's like it had to be God that took you out of that. You know, and that's what it is by being a light, that's what it is by having a testimony that no one can say anything about, that you coming out of. That is only God, and I think that's a great thing that you guys stand firm in that, and God will bless it.

Javi: 33:49

I think, if we're getting close to wrapping up here, I think one of the things that I find really important is something we said earlier, which is that these four men were brought in for, and I went to go find what it says. It says they were handsome in appearance, skillful in all wisdom and endowed with intelligence and discernment. I think that that intelligence and ability to discern comes from the faith that they have in God, and wisdom is the foundation for all of it. We have entire books of the Bible which are dedicated to wisdom. So you know wisdom to your point.

Javi: 34:20

A minute ago, you know, you meet these intelligent people and they're smart and they're thoughtful, but they're worldly smart and they're worldly thoughtful, but they're not wise. They're not supported by thousands and thousands of years of other people who've gone through it and were able to record it and, by the way, they did so because they were taking it from the being that created wisdom, which isn't the right foundation. It's not based around that absolute truth, and so, for me, this is that whole thing where Christianity offers a foundation. It offers a foundation that will give you wisdom at times. It will give you thought-provoking things that you can discern and experience for yourself.

Javi: 34:56

Proverbs is not about knowing, it's about doing, and the more that you do these things, the more you learn them. It's the experience of them, and this is how you become like Daniel. This is how you do it. You commit yourself to the faith, you commit yourself to the scripture. You commit yourself to the faith. You commit yourself to the scripture, you commit yourself to the executing what the faith is telling you you should be doing, and then you earn the knowledge. I know you guys don't like the old testament, but go back to those wisdom books and read uh song of solomon.

David: 35:22

read uh, not song of solomon uh, not song of solomon, sorry, I'm a little young.

Javi: 35:28

Sorry, yeah, not song of solomon I was in I songs, I was in the wisdom books in my head, sorry. Read Proverbs and read Ecclesiastes, and the things that you will see are yeah wrong. Book, job and Job. What you'll find is that everything you need for life is right there. That's the foundation. That is the foundation for it, and then you build your life around Christ using that foundation. That is the foundation for it. And then you build your life around Christ using that foundation.

David: 35:53

I mean, it's really hard not to win. I'll just kind of end off saying that Daniel is actually one of the few people in the Bible who is not recorded with sin. Really, yeah, he's one of the ones who's not recorded committing any sin, and what it reads to me is not that he was perfect, because we know that he did sin, he did repent. It's not that that's not the story, but the story I'm reading. Is even somebody as faithful as Daniel that he still went through troubles?

David: 36:18

He was still somebody who was taken from his home, putting into a court that he didn't want to be in, living a life he didn't want to live being thrown in a lion's den. He lived a life, believe it or not, in the Midrash and Talmud as well. They also have him as a eunuch.

David: 36:33

They said that yeah they said that he was a eunuch. I didn't know that. So you now have somebody who had a really tough life but still trusted God through it all. And if I can just ask you guys kind of one last sign off thing is just when you hear about that, when you hear about you know following God, even though life is not always, uh, the easiest, um, how do you keep your conviction to God?

Tucker: 36:55

I mean, of course, we remember the evidence for the faith and whenever we do that, whenever we truly have, you know, like belief, it's easy to have faith because whenever you see, you know all that God's done, it's hard not to love him hard, not to want to apply what you learn, not to love him hard, not to want to apply what you learn. And again, you know, if you have that great faith, then you can just read your Bible and be insanely convicted. You know, one of my favorite verses in the entire Bible is Jesus said I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace in this world. You will have trouble, but take heart, I've overcome the world. And that's just what we have to remember.

David: 37:34

And Vicki, if, if, if there was again, with the world being what it is and you having uh struggles in this world, how can you still remain faithful to Christ?

Vicky: 37:44

Um, so when I was reading Daniel six and Daniel three, I believe what I got like what? What was put on my heart was that God doesn't like guarantee safety, but he guarantees his presence, like throughout our life. So, yeah, we're going to get thrown in the fire sometimes because of us being obedient right To him and not to the world, but he's going to be with us.

David: 38:09

So Amen, amazing. Thank you so much. This has been an incredible episode. I really appreciate you guys for coming in. Thank, you guys, thanks guys.

Javi: 38:18

This is awesome.

Vicky: 38:19

Thank you for having us.

Javi: 38:20

We, we always enjoy doing this, and having new friends with us makes it even more fun. We get new ideas thrown in there. We get to see how different people approach the faith, how different people approach life. Uh, how old we are, that's an important part of us to remember. And uh, for those of you who are listening, who are young, uh, we appreciate your listening. We hope you listen to people like we have on here, and if you're old, we hope you're listening to them too, because that's what's coming next. Uh, thanks for everything. Uh, thanks for the time, thanks for the consideration. We appreciate your likes, comments, shares, follows, reviews you name it. We appreciate you and we'll talk to you next week. Thank you, bye, see you guys.