Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro, hey, I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason Holloway. Welcome everyone. How's it going? What's going on? Having a lovely one. How are you Doing great? I am pumped for today. Yes, it is definitely kind of an odd thing that we're going to talk about. Okay, so the topic is going to be evangelism, it's how to speak to others about Christ. Yeah, but we're going to use a story that uses Christ to talk about how to talk about Christ. Okay.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Let's do it.

Speaker 1: 0:37

Which is going to be interesting. This is the Jesus and the woman of Samaria. Oh, yeah, john 4, 1 through 39 is where we're going to be using okay, uh, but this goes all the way to 45. Uh, but john 4, 1 to 39, and this is the samaritan woman comes to the well and the apostles have gone into town and it's just jesus and her right sitting around the well and there's this really great interaction that happens between jesus and her um and ends up being all about evangelism and and how to speak about him. Yeah, um, but the first thing he does, which is really really cool, is she is the first person that jesus openly reveals who he is.

Speaker 3: 1:19

Yeah, that's true, he has not yet revealed himself to anybody.

Speaker 1: 1:22

Um, he has done miracles, but he has not yet revealed himself to anybody. He has done miracles, but he has not revealed himself as the Messiah to anybody, and he does that with her. So it's. And what's even more mind blowing is this is a woman of Samaria. This is somebody who the Hebrews would not engage in conversation with, and more than that, she's actually at the well, and when you look at the time, she's at the well at noon.

Speaker 3: 1:49

What I've heard about that and please, david, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Jewish looked at people from Samaria or Samaritans as unclean. Yes, they're just spiteful like unclean. Yes, yes, like they're just spiteful they're. They're people that, uh, that worship. Also, they incorporated the greek gods gods into their culture and all that stuff, right, and they're like they're mixed, right, they?

Speaker 1: 2:13

would never be. They would never be caught sitting and having a conversation period ever no, um, and she's coming about the six hours, what the bible says, and that means it's about noon. Yeah, and that's also very odd, because when people went to draw water, they would do this early in the morning. They would not wait for the sun of the day to come, and she's doing it noon, so it's even showing us something further.

Speaker 1: 2:37

So, it's this woman that he would never have a conversation with, coming at a time that already puts her in a perspective of not only a woman that we've been talked to, but you're coming at a time where what'd you do wrong? Yeah, why are you coming this time? Why are you trying to hide yourself right from everybody else? So this is all happening undertone. Again, this has nothing to do with what jesus is saying. This is just kind of setting the story backstory for what exactly is about to happen.

Speaker 1: 3:05

And then jesus starts to acknowledge her, talk to her and point out things like I know the sin you've done. Yeah, I know you've had five husbands. I know that you're living one right now, that you're not married. He's kind of pointing things out to her, um, but not in a judgmental way. He is literally just pointing out hey, you're here at this time because of these things. And it's this really cool moment where he is starting to open up her heart for what he's about to talk and what she's doing is she's actually responding in a very normal fashion. She doesn't really take anything of it. Right now. She's going how are you drawing water?

Speaker 1: 3:49

you don't even have something to draw water with yeah, yeah, you know she's just kind to strange man you're, you're drawing, you're at a well trying to draw water and you don't have a pail or whatever you call it and and he is just getting her to talk, and that's the first part of this that I really want to talk about, which is, you know, sometimes we are and when I say we, I say people who want to be evangelists, people who want to spread the gospel things, people who feel like, hey, it's my job to spread God's word, which we know it is. It's a great commission, right, but what they start with is the let me tell you what I think, and they start right into it, right, what jesus is doing is let me get you to talk and I can respond. Yeah, and this is something where I look at couples, and you know you look at couples therapy, and what do they say are? Are you responding by listening first or responding because you had the answer before?

Speaker 3: 4:45

you were even Well for me what I see in the story here. It's Jesus, the Jewish man, going to a Samaritan woman which they would never speak to them. And when I think about that and evangelism is just the approach of going, you know what? Everyone could use a savior, everyone needs a savior, and the culture bounds, the gender difference there is like it doesn't matter. Everyone could use hope, and that's what I see there when I first read it. But as we go deeper into it, there's more happening.

Speaker 1: 5:16

Well, I mean he's crossing boundaries. He's crossing boundaries right now.

Speaker 1: 5:20

Yeah, for sure he is opening up a conversation. One of the things I really love and I'm just going to kind of step back and go Jesus when he preaches to people, and Paul did the same thing is they say different things to different people from where they are, and it's impossible to do that. If you don't listen, I can't tell where you are in your journey in your head, I can't give you the answer. I can't say well, jesus is the answer for all that, unless I know what that problem really is.

Speaker 3: 5:51

Yeah, and I was going to say that. I was going to say like. So we can't evangelize to anyone, but for someone to not tell the truth. If you want to hear the truth, they have to be open to be to to hear the truth but also share the truth. Meaning, like jesus christ asked her, right, hey, you have a husband right to go back to, or, um, actually you have no husband, right, so he knows. Like jesus didn't have to ask her anything. He knows what's happening in her life, but he gave her the chance to tell the truth. And by her telling the truth to Jesus, oh, you're open up now, you're open to receive some truth. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3: 6:34

And I think I look back at Matthew 10, 14,. Right, so this is Jesus sending out the apostles in twos Go out and preach the word. This is evangelism. Right, go out, knock on doors and share the good news. Right. And what he says here in scripture? He says if anyone would not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. If they're not willing to hear the truth, if they don't want to accept the truth, then you can't. You're talking to the wall. So there's that truth. When you're speaking to others non-believers or people just struggling with the faith If they're not open to receive the truth, it's hard for you to even share the good news.

Speaker 1: 7:19

Well, let me ask you, if somebody's not ready to receive it and Jesus is because this woman might not have been ready to receive this, but Jesus was able to enter in this conversation, he was able to open her up enough to not only understand what he's saying and hear what he's saying, but we'll go into what she does afterwards. But we're talking about a full conversion here from somebody who's totally shut down to somebody who's wide open from it. Let me just ask you, hearing that you know, hey, if somebody is not listening to you, you should just kind of walk away and shake that dirt from your, from your feet. Is that something that we can look at as, hey, this is the principle I want to live my life by, or hey, no, maybe I'm doing this wrong. Maybe I'm doing this wrong. Maybe I'm evangelizing wrong.

Speaker 3: 8:05

I think in the pro I mean for their. I look at them and, as you are going about your life for your day, let's say, I meet somebody within the grocery store or whatever it is, and I hear and this is how I approach, at least if I hear an opportunity to share some truth in their life, right, If I speak to them and go, hey, you know how much are these apples, and they go whatever, and we go into a story and they're open enough, I might share Christ with them. In that instance, right, there's an opportunity for us. There was a truth that we met like, hey, I'm having these struggles and I'm able to provide a hope out of that struggle, but if the conversation, it's very flat, they don't want to accept anything or receive anything, I might not share Christ with them. I'll be loving to them, I'll be Christ-like to them, but I wouldn't maybe approach them in that way.

Speaker 3: 8:57

Maybe that's different or wrong, but I think that's what it is. Even when you look at street evangelism and stuff like that that could be, it's a little different. You're out there. This is what I'm here for to share good news. Come here. If you step forward, you're willing to accept the truth from what I'm here for to share.

Speaker 1: 9:17

I got it. What I hear sometimes and this is with evangelism in general is we have a reason, we're doing this, we have this purpose and we're doing it for that. What, what Jesus is doing here and this comes out right from the beginning, when he's talking about the water and he's saying you know, you're going to be thirsty again. Do you want the living? I love that. And let's just hit on living water for a few minutes, because what he is saying is not hey, you're not listening to me, I have something better. This is because he is saying the living water is better, but he's laying it down in a different way. And again, we have to go back into the context of them. Yeah, she is drawing water for life. This is why they draw water. I'm drawing water so I can live. Right, what is living water? What is he talking about?

Speaker 1: 10:04

Because, she's going. What exactly is living water? Yeah, what is he talking about?

Speaker 2: 10:07

Because she's going. What exactly is living water? Yeah, yeah, yeah, living water in Hebrew also means running water. It would have been the common term for it, correct?

Speaker 1: 10:14

And what is the running water for? In Hebrew context, if you think about water and running water, that's purity, that's the mikvah, that is everything they do in Levitical law. The only way to attain purity is through living water, is through running water.

Speaker 2: 10:32

The part of the story that hits me as evangelism is not so much I'm just going kind of a different direction the part that hits me as evangelism is that there he uses common verbiage that she would have been used to, and then he just changes the perspective on her a little bit. He comes and he says will you give me a drink? And she is surprised that he's asking for the drink because he, you know, by culture he shouldn't be. And so, first of all, he's entering into this situation that most people don't, which is confusing to her. And then, you know, she says but you don't even have the bucket, and it's not that she's not willing, she's just trying to understand why he's here in the first place. And then what he does is, I think, masterful conversation.

Speaker 2: 11:16

We've talked so many times about Jesus meeting or God meeting you where you're at. He meets her where she's at. He takes something that she's very, very well aware of. He takes something that she well aware get it sorry, um, she's very well aware of, and he ends up taking a concept that she knows right, and he turns it into something that she was. And she even says beforehand I was expecting the messiah. The messiah is going to come. When the messiah comes, he's going to tell me what's going on. When the messiah comes, he's going to tell she does believe, she's already ready, but she doesn't, like. She believes in the concept of it, but she doesn't know.

Speaker 2: 11:50

It's him, and what he does and I think this is really fascinating and really brilliant is he takes this concept that she knows and he turns it into something that she can understand, in saying that the living water that you constantly have to draw from you don't have to constantly draw from it anymore. And now he's changed universes, from the one you drink to the one that you take into your soul. But he's he's. This is what I think that evangelism is is. Well, you know, it's not about walk up and go. Hey, you sinner, stop being a sinner, you screw up you know, it's.

Speaker 2: 12:23

it's looking at somebody with compassion, with empathy and understanding their situation, and and to the point where, even when he talks to them about, you know you have a husband or you don't have a husband or you know, you've had five Right. Obviously, we're never able to soothsay and know what's going on in their lives.

Speaker 2: 12:40

We don't have that information but, like you said earlier, we can listen and we can find out and then, once we know enough, then we can alter our statements of faith to something that they understand and a concept that they can understand and a way they can understand, and being able to be flexible like that is. I think that's the difference between a good evangelist and a bad evangelist Telling somebody that they're a bunch of sinners who screw up all the time, you know, and having this very inflexible.

Speaker 2: 13:07

Although very true, although very true, but it's not going to get anywhere. And so, with her, when he acknowledges her and he doesn't condemn her, when he acknowledges her sins and doesn't condemn them and he continues to say the living water is still here for you. Like this is what I can. I can like visually picture myself talking to somebody who's going through something and saying I see your sin. Yeah, I see your problems.

Speaker 1: 13:31

I see your daughter, I see your faults.

Speaker 2: 13:33

Yeah, I see your challenges, but there is something out there that's going to help you. Yeah, there is a God who's going to help you. I'm never going to be able to say I am he woman, go tell everyone. But I can say I'm full of he and I want to pass he back on to you.

Speaker 3: 13:49

Yeah, I think the thing about our faith, you know, or just God, period, it's you know, we all live life and life, sometimes life happens and I feel like there's hope and by us evangelizing, sharing the hope, which is not ours to have, right or to keep, it's ours to share, share the good news, right, it's, that's the hope and I think anyone could receive hope.

Speaker 1: 14:16

Yeah, and also, are we living that? Are we transformed? Because if you're not transformed again, this becomes very challenging and then the other thing that you look at.

Speaker 3: 14:26

That's a good point, though, david. I mean, i'm'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but like, if we're not living that way and people know we're not living that way, it's hard for them to receive that truth. Wait, wait, you're telling me to follow this life. It's impossible for them to follow that truth. I mean it's like.

Speaker 2: 14:40

For what reason? Like you're the same person I knew 10 years ago.

Speaker 3: 14:44

You're doing the same things. What are you talking about? Yeah, why are you?

Speaker 2: 14:47

that sounds like condemnation, but when they see the change in your life and they see how you have changed, more importantly, how God has changed you and then they want that change.

Speaker 3: 14:58

Right, they see that change.

Speaker 2: 14:59

That's the power of testimony, right when I'm drinking from the well of God and the water is changing, changing me, then they want to drink from that same well.

Speaker 1: 15:07

Yeah, and you're always pointing to Jesus, not perfection.

Speaker 3: 15:11

Because you're not going to be perfect.

Speaker 1: 15:13

You have to point to Jesus With testimony Javi we just mentioned. You know, testimony is such an important thing. The reason why we all have different testimonies is because we can all approach people differently.

Speaker 3: 15:23

That's good.

Speaker 1: 15:23

Right, people go through things. So one of the things that used to drive me crazy when I was learning to be a chaplain was if somebody's going through something and the chaplain would say I know exactly what you're going through, let me, and they start to go into the thing. Yeah, no, you don't. And that's the the first response in somebody's brain when they're in a really dark places. Right, you don't understand me. You've never gone through what I'm going through, and right and all and right now jesus is not going. Oh, you know, poor you.

Speaker 2: 15:49

I know what you feel like and all of that.

Speaker 1: 15:51

No, he is. He's hitting her with truth, but in grace. And that's the trick, is he's not condemning her, he's not judging her right, he is just showing her grace and and showing her a better way. Yeah, and that's really what it is. And and, by the way, just because I love it, running water, mayim chayim is actually the way to say it, mayim chayim, which is just fun to say Mayim chayim, mayim chayim. That sounds like my doctor.

Speaker 2: 16:24

So for a second, as I said that out loud, I realized that I had never considered that Jesus is using another symbology here. He's standing in front of a well, saying there's water there, yeah, but then at the same time he's pointing to himself and saying I am the other well, I am the well by which you can drink different water. He's not saying that you know, if you get that water from there and I bless it, it's going to become that. It's like I just never considered water. He's not saying that you know, if you get that water from there and I bless it, it's going to become that. It's like I just never considered that. He's saying that I am the infinite well, the infinite spring. You know, I, I am the father, who is the, who is the water that will give you life, and I don't know I just never put that like the visualization to add to it now.

Speaker 1: 17:02

So even adding to that, when she's talking about the well of regular water, yeah, she's saying you have nothing to draw it and the well is deep, right, deep. Yeah, your well of living water is not yeah his well is very accessible for everybody, so we start thinking about how to get your water, how to get that. You get this water from this well, man, you're going to be working for it. God's living water, right that?

Speaker 2: 17:26

well is not deep. It it's very accessible, and she had to walk a long way at a harsh hour to get it, so she also understands how much of a blessing it is to be able to access that well from wherever you are.

Speaker 3: 17:40

Oh wow, I love that layer there. That's a deep layer there, no pun intended, like it's a deep it's a deep, well layer.

Speaker 3: 17:47

Yeah, deep well layer. It's a deep well of wealth. Yeah, a deep well layer. Yeah, because I mean, well, she's a Samaritan, so I'm not sure exactly her culture in that sense or her religion or how she approaches things, but I know the Jewish faith and the stuff that you have to do to even reach God, to even speak to him, to, the stuff that you have to. You know the 600 and something rules that you have to do to uphold to reach this purity or something. It's deep, it's very layered, where God is like no, I'm accessible. And not only am I easily accessible, it's a living water that you could have forever in your life.

Speaker 1: 18:22

Well, I think Jewish people feel as though God is accessible to them as a people. But she's not one of them, and they would have been quick a people, but she's not one of them, and they would have been quick to tell her she's not one of them so for her it might have seemed he does too.

Speaker 3: 18:36

He says right the God that you worship on this mountain she's also very clear going.

Speaker 1: 18:40

I don't know what you're doing, talking to me like almost. Sir. Do you know who you are and who I? Am meanwhile he knows everything about you. It's such a great question where she's going, kind of, do you know who I am?

Speaker 1: 18:51

And he's going oh yeah, do you know who I am? And that's even a really cooler kind of moment. What happens after this is when you talk about evangelism and how to talk about Christ we talked right now just about people seeing your transformation she runs to the village. She runs to her village with her testimony now and she is telling everybody, everyone. You have to see this guy. She is now completely transformed and changed from this interaction with Jesus and then takes that the next step further. Yeah, and that's that part where I'm going. You know, evangelism isn't just I'm going to say the words, I'm going to come with an agenda. She has no agenda. She is literally just going to her village and sharing this news with them Now with the thought of let me change all of these people's minds. Just look what this man did to me.

Speaker 3: 19:50

Yeah, your testimony that you're, we talk about it, there's songs about it. Your testimony holds so much weight in sharing it to other people to receive the hope of Christ. And if that's all you know, that's enough.

Speaker 1: 20:05

I used to ask people and I'm sure it doesn't come from me, I heard it somewhere, I just don't remember. Is you know? When we talk about hey, you know, I need to eat at a good Italian restaurant tonight, you know my friends would be like, oh, there's this Italian restaurant, it's the best you got to try this and this and get this dish, and they'll go on and on and on. But when it comes to Jesus, are we doing it the same way? Are we going? Listen, I had Jesus in me.

Speaker 1: 20:31

You have to experience this. It's different than you've ever had before. This is the best dish ever. We don't do it the same way. You see that joy in her when she's doing it.

Speaker 3: 20:43

She told town.

Speaker 2: 20:45

Well, she becomes an evangelist herself. Exactly.

Speaker 3: 20:49

The first evangelist. I think Exactly. You know she the first evangelist. I think right. Probably, to some extent, if we look at it, yeah, probably, yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:53

I mean, the idea here is, she knew how unworthy she felt Forget the Samaritan part. She knew she felt unworthy because she had been married five times and now she was living in an un, you know, was living in an un, you know, uh, he was in an unmarried situation and so, by, by all accounts, in samaritanism or jewishism, she would have been unclean sinner, yeah, right, yeah, and she or she would have been an outcast to some extent, or yeah, I mean so far, so good yeah yeah, and.

Speaker 2: 21:25

And then this man comes along and says don't worry, everything's fine. I see that to the point where I will call it out. That's how well I do know you, and yet I'm telling you that you have my love, my forgiveness, my attention, my goodness, regardless of all those things. And the weight off her must have been tremendous, yeah, to the point where and I been tremendous to the point where and I think this is the point about evangelism it's like if you felt something that big, if you've eaten that best dish at the Italian restaurant, your next step should be to go tell everybody about that Italian dish. Right, she got, she felt the love, yeah, she felt the acceptance, she felt the welcoming and she wanted everyone else to feel it as well.

Speaker 3: 22:11

Yeah, Luke four, sorry, John four. 39 says many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of that woman's testimony. Yeah, you know, and um I guarantee.

Speaker 1: 22:22

She didn't argue them to belief, right, she's just sharing. She didn't academicize them, yeah, yeah even go well.

Speaker 2: 22:29

No, these are the 12 reasons for evidence like that's it.

Speaker 1: 22:31

She just, she just shared, I mean, what we imagine to be a moment well, imagine she transformed to the whole.

Speaker 2: 22:38

Remember, the whole community knows her and they know that she's probably a different kind of person and they know how. Yeah, you know she was probably shamed and shameful and kept her head down. I mean, look, she wouldn't, she wouldn't even go to the water to the well until everybody else was gone. That's the kind of shame she had. And now here she is running into the streets saying that you know, god has come. God has come, god has come. That is a great point. When they see her change again, it goes back to the transformation we talked about before. Now this happens immediately, but in our lives we find God in a dark place. We change our lives, we get better, we become better, we speak better, we're more peaceful, we're more patient, we're more kind, and people see that change and now, all of a sudden, they can believe as well. So it's like our responsibility not just to learn from God, but to to express the change of God in our lives for the benefit of others as well. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:27

And she never slowed down. According, and again, this is, this is church tradition. So you know, these are snippets of little ancient manuscripts and writings, but they have her name as Fotini, which means the enlightened one. Okay, okay, and she was apparently baptized and then spread the gospel to North Africa and Rome and eventually was martyred by Nero.

Speaker 1: 23:49

But this was the first evangelist who spread. She didn't just have this experience, go and tell somebody and that was it and let it sit there. She had such a traumatic experience, such a wonderful time with Jesus that transformed her entire life that she totally changed her ways, became an evangelist to the point where she was martyred, but brought that to distant lands traveling time. It stayed with her.

Speaker 2: 24:17

Well, let's go back to testimony for a minute, because that's you know.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Again, this is one of those things that sometimes we talk about what testimony means and I think you said it really eloquently which is that people have gone through things, and so when certain people tell you I've been there, it means I've been there.

Speaker 2: 24:31

And so when they tell you I know what you feel like, they really do know what you feel like. And you know, I know, that a lot of people, especially people who feel very unworthy to come back to the faith, don't realize that that unworthiness is also what makes them worthy. That you know drug addiction or that alcoholism or that huge mistake or that I'm not going to say the millions of things people could have done wrong, but somebody else is doing those same things wrong and they feel unworthy now. And it's the ability to say to somebody who is, you know, upset with themselves and won't allow themselves to forgive themselves, to have somebody say I feel you, I know where you're at, I really do understand you, and so whatever trial or tribulation that you're going through or whatever past things that you've done, that you're embarrassed of, that you're shamed of, can become your biggest strength as a Christian, because you can find groups of people who are like that and help them get through the thing that God helped you get through, and you know, I think that's really powerful.

Speaker 3: 25:32

I was going to say, even with evangelism, and like this woman, what she did she spoke to her town.

Speaker 3: 25:37

She didn't go to the Jews and try to convert them to Christianity or to let them know that the Messiah is here. She spoke to her people and I think we could understand that, as, as people like I might not be able, my testimony might not be for everyone for everyone, or I can't speak to somebody that maybe I've never walked in their shoes, like you were saying before, david, like my testimony might not be the same way if I was to go. You know I've been there before, as, uh, you know it says let's say I'm speaking to a drug addict or something like that, that's, overcoming their addiction. You know, if I was there before, I could relate, I could understand what they're going through and let them know hey, I found living water. Come here, draw living water from here.

Speaker 3: 26:20

because I'm able to say so you're going to meet them where there are you know and I think maybe that's what she became this big evangelism, and that's where she probably approached a lot of things.

Speaker 1: 26:29

Then I think that when you struggle with something, you are coming from a place of humility, you are coming from a place of shame, empathy, and you have that. You build that up to where, when you are coming back to the faith, if you're somebody who's struggling and you're saying, listen, I don't feel like I'm worthy. You are more worthy than somebody who's on the top of their mountain, going. I'm the best person ever and I deserve all of this and all of that and I'm going. No, the better evangelist is the one that has struggled, who feels humble, who is going to come from this place of darkness for a moment and go.

Speaker 2: 27:03

I was this deep and God brought me out and God's going to put you in front of the people who you need to be in front of.

Speaker 2: 27:09

After that too, like I remember, when I first came back, one of the things that I was I felt very shameful for having left for so long. Like that was my thing. Like I mean, I felt very shameful. I was like I had this plan to to be in ministry when I was in, you know, 18 years old, and then I kind of left it behind and went on this whole worldly way and and when I came back, I felt very guilty for that, for having searched for so many other things, and one of the things that was told to me was like it wasn't for naught. You know, you, you spent all these years learning about all these other faiths and all these other. You know agnostic beliefs and scientific beliefs and now the amount of people that I now have conversations with who are struggling believers because of some scientific thing or some you know other religious thing. I have a lot of answers that other people don't have.

Speaker 2: 27:56

I just I just have perspectives that other people don't have, and not to say that they're better or worse. They're just different and they're more attuned towards people who feel like that, and you know. The same thing goes again, I think, if you're an, you're an addict or if you're a gambling, or you know what are those things are and you've overcome them. You know what it feels like to have to overcome those and you can talk to those people more directly.

Speaker 1: 28:15

That's good. Yeah, listen, if. If you see us as a symbolic, uh, italian restaurant and you want to spread what we do and we say to other people, we would love to. We'd love to hear from you, we'd love to know what you think of this episode and others, what you're thinking of for future episodes. We don't do Yelp reviews, but we do Apple reviews.

Speaker 3: 28:35

Yes, we do. We do do Apple reviews. If you see me as a garlic knot, that's exactly I'm a garlic row.

Speaker 1: 28:41

I will never not, but we appreciate you and we can't wait to see you next time. Thanks guys, see you. Speak to you next time Something.